Guitar Center in trouble?

[selowitch]

Fender is the next Gibson btw. They have two basses (jazz/p) that are about 2k that are not any better than their murican elite/professional basses. I feel sorry for the saps that will put that kinda cash into something that basic.

Where Fender has Gibson beat is price diversity. There's a Fender-family instrument at every price level and for most any kind of musician. This is a big advantage for Fender IMO. I can get a American Professional at $1,300, an American Original at $1,999, or an Elite for $2,400 ... or I can get a MIM Standard for $600 or go with a Squier for $300 or less. Pretty nice!

 

[McBubbler]

Just got their super glossy "whooooooaaaaa dude" magazine that is in the trash already. It's a bunch of stuff I don't want and prices that scare me how people can afford them (some lower priced stuff, but mostly 2k up)

Seems to be designed by a ... designer vs. what people are actually looking for in instruments.

Fender is the next Gibson btw. They have two basses (jazz/p) that are about 2k that are not any better than their murican elite/professional basses. I feel sorry for the saps that will put that kinda cash into something that basic.

Agree 1000% Fender is riding on their name now, and not so much quality or features. Much better options out there for half the money if you're not concerned about resale value.

 

[selowitch]

Agree 1000% Fender is riding on their name now, and not so much quality or features. Much better options out there for half the money if you're not concerned about resale value.

An MIM Precision is half the cost of an MIA and a Squier is half the cost of the MIM.

 

[glocke1]

Just got their super glossy "whooooooaaaaa dude" magazine that is in the trash already. It's a bunch of stuff I don't want and prices that scare me how people can afford them (some lower priced stuff, but mostly 2k up)

Seems to be designed by a ... designer vs. what people are actually looking for in instruments.

Fender is the next Gibson btw. They have two basses (jazz/p) that are about 2k that are not any better than their murican elite/professional basses. I feel sorry for the saps that will put that kinda cash into something that basic.

I don't know..I bought a couple of new jazz basses over the past 6 months and am quite happy with them. I looked at some less expensive options out there for a bit, and at the end of the day liked the feel and tone of the jazz basses so went with those. They work for me and no regrats.

 

[toowrongfoo]

2k? I mean for elite that is one thing, but for some common stock?

 

[glocke1]

2k? I mean for elite that is one thing, but for some common stock?

elites are 2k..american pros are $1500 give or take...I've seen both for less when some sales are going on.

 

[IamGroot]

Dairy Queen is closing 70 of their stores mostly in small towns in West Texas. Thats going to be rough. In several places i visit, they are the only restaurant in town except for Subway.

 

[McBubbler]

An MIM Precision is half the cost of an MIA and a Squier is half the cost of the MIM.

I have two Squier VM P-bass right now, one is the newer PJ style, and one is older with the Duncan Designed pups in it. Both great basses, both beat the pants off of most of the MIM stuff I've played, so yeah, I'm a fan of Fender designs. I just think that for the money you can get a better bass with better hardware and electronics from another maker, if you're not being a brand snob. That brings me back around to the original post, and it's one reason why GC is failing, their selection of affordable basses is dominated by Mitchell products (basically thin veneers on a turd sandwich), and tons of new old stock that they never discount. I bought my VMs (which are wildly popular) at a local guitar shop where they always have something in stock that I want. I've never ordered through Sweetwater, but since I'm very particular about the feel of the instrument, I have to have my hands on it first, or I just won't buy it. Wish GC was more like how it used to be when it was actually fun to go there...

 

[selowitch]

I have two Squier VM P-bass right now, one is the newer PJ style, and one is older with the Duncan Designed pups in it. Both great basses, both beat the pants off of most of the MIM stuff I've played, so yeah, I'm a fan of Fender designs. I just think that for the money you can get a better bass with better hardware and electronics from another maker, if you're not being a brand snob. That brings me back around to the original post, and it's one reason why GC is failing, their selection of affordable basses is dominated by Mitchell products (basically thin veneers on a turd sandwich), and tons of new old stock that they never discount. I bought my VMs (which are wildly popular) at a local guitar shop where they always have something in stock that I want. I've never ordered through Sweetwater, but since I'm very particular about the feel of the instrument, I have to have my hands on it first, or I just won't buy it. Wish GC was more like how it used to be when it was actually fun to go there...

I'd love to know what maker/models you think beat Fender for the same money. Maybe I'll consider those.

 

[McBubbler]

I'd love to know what maker/models you think beat Fender for the same money. Maybe I'll consider those.

Warwick RockBass gets ripped on because they use maple for their necks, and their products are really all about tonewood, but obviously if you like Fender, a maple neck is not a problem. Either the Corvette or Streamer are both great basses, lots of fun to play, sound great, and the hardware Warwick puts on there is leagues beyond Fenders that cost 2x as much. The active electronics and pickups are easily on par with comparable MIM Fender Deluxe, and no stacked knobs or goofy mid EQ without detents to deal with. I think the break angle at the bridge and nut on the Warwick is much better, too. It gives a lighter feel to the strings, and a stronger fundamental. Fender may have been innovative 60 years ago, there's a lot that's happened since then - basses have been designed around a 5-string design and active electronics instead of rigging everything to their old design to adapt to changing consumer demands. And then if you're looking in the $2000+ range, there's nothing quite like a hand-crafted German 'Wick.

 

[Milo Spleen]

Where Fender has Gibson beat is price diversity. There's a Fender-family instrument at every price level and for most any kind of musician. This is a big advantage for Fender IMO. I can get a American Professional at $1,300, an American Original at $1,999, or an Elite for $2,400 ... or I can get a MIM Standard for $600 or go with a Squier for $300 or less. Pretty nice!

Yeah, I sold my RI 62 Jazz because I didn't think I needed a $1,500 bass anymore, so now I own a MX Jazz and an MX Precision that are just as good IMO.

 

[selowitch]

Yeah, I sold my RI 62 Jazz because I didn't think I needed a $1,500 bass anymore, so now I own a MX Jazz and an MX Precision that are just as good IMO.

What's MX?

 

[Milo Spleen]

What's MX?

Made in Mexico (the serial numbers begin with MX).

 

[selowitch]

Made in Mexico (the serial numbers begin with MX).

Oooooh. Okay. Not all MIM have serial numbers beginning in MX, of course.

 

[IronLung1986]

Agree 1000% Fender is riding on their name now, and not so much quality or features. Much better options out there for half the money if you're not concerned about resale value.

American Fenders from at least the last 10 years are objectively great instruments. The fit, finish, and QC are excellent in every example I've seen. They are easily the equal of Music Man, who are often thought to be superior at a slightly higher price point. The USA necks especially are wonderful. I actually feel like Fender deserves a lot of credit. They're not riding on their name, they're doing justice to it. Anecdotally, after putting an American Standard neck on my American Special P bass, I can't discern any meaningful difference in quality between that bass and my Stingray.

 

[selowitch]

American Fenders from at least the last 10 years are objectively great instruments. The fit, finish, and QC are excellent in every example I've seen. They are easily the equal of Music Man, who are often thought to be superior at a slightly higher price point. The USA necks especially are wonderful. I actually feel like Fender deserves a lot of credit. They're not riding on their name, they're doing justice to it. Anecdotally, after putting an American Standard neck on my American Special P bass, I can't discern any meaningful difference in quality between that bass and my Stingray.

I love Music Man's quality, especially the new Caprice and Cutlass basses, but I find that I prefer the sound of most of the Fenders I've played. I agree that since around 2008 there's been a noticeable uptick in the overall quality of MIA/MIM Fenders, which is very gratifying to see.

G&L stuff is really high quality also ... but soundwise I usually prefer Fender. The one exception might be the Comanche guitar, which I think might be the greatest guitar ever made to my ears.

 

[Brent Davenport]

Warwick RockBass gets ripped on because they use maple for their necks, and their products are really all about tonewood, but obviously if you like Fender, a maple neck is not a problem. Either the Corvette or Streamer are both great basses, lots of fun to play, sound great, and the hardware Warwick puts on there is leagues beyond Fenders that cost 2x as much. The active electronics and pickups are easily on par with comparable MIM Fender Deluxe, and no stacked knobs or goofy mid EQ without detents to deal with. I think the break angle at the bridge and nut on the Warwick is much better, too. It gives a lighter feel to the strings, and a stronger fundamental. Fender may have been innovative 60 years ago, there's a lot that's happened since then - basses have been designed around a 5-string design and active electronics instead of rigging everything to their old design to adapt to changing consumer demands. And then if you're looking in the $2000+ range, there's nothing quite like a hand-crafted German 'Wick.

I would love to get my hands on a German Warwick to try it out, but no GC in town has one. The one 30 miles away has the Rockbass line, but no German models.

 

[McBubbler]

I would love to get my hands on a German Warwick to try it out, but no GC in town has one. The one 30 miles away has the Rockbass line, but no German models.

German Warwick is one of the few instruments I'd be comfortable buying sight unseen.

 

[McBubbler]

American Fenders from at least the last 10 years are objectively great instruments. The fit, finish, and QC are excellent in every example I've seen. They are easily the equal of Music Man, who are often thought to be superior at a slightly higher price point. The USA necks especially are wonderful. I actually feel like Fender deserves a lot of credit. They're not riding on their name, they're doing justice to it. Anecdotally, after putting an American Standard neck on my American Special P bass, I can't discern any meaningful difference in quality between that bass and my Stingray.

You and selowitch are misunderstanding. I love Fender, always have. In fact, my current bass lineup is 2 Squier Ps and a Bacchus Jazz copy (you read that right, Bacchus). Of course I play the crap out of them so I can't see spending the $1500 it would take to get into an Elite only to mess it up, not that I haven't spent hours at GC and other stores playing those MIA instruments. I know what they feel like, how they're built, how they sound, but fit and finish is a collector's term, and not a make or break for a good player's instrument. The original post which I agreed with was stating that Fender is the new Gibson, meaning they're pricing for collectors, not players. I recoil at the idea of a fine instrument crafted from select tonewoods languishing on someone's wall as a mere status symbol (even if that fine instrument has a glorified sardine can for a bridge and a bad break angle on the A string). A classic is a classic for a reason, and Fender is still building their classic basses to their high standards. My opinion is that you can buy a decidedly more modern bass for the money, one that has taken care of the structural and design issues that exist on every Fender bass. Let's face it: if Fenders were perfect, there wouldn't be so many aftermarket parts made for them.

 

[IronLung1986]

You and selowitch are misunderstanding. I love Fender, always have. In fact, my current bass lineup is 2 Squier Ps and a Bacchus Jazz copy (you read that right, Bacchus). Of course I play the crap out of them so I can't see spending the $1500 it would take to get into an Elite only to mess it up, not that I haven't spent hours at GC and other stores playing those MIA instruments. I know what they feel like, how they're built, how they sound, but fit and finish is a collector's term, and not a make or break for a good player's instrument. The original post which I agreed with was stating that Fender is the new Gibson, meaning they're pricing for collectors, not players. I recoil at the idea of a fine instrument crafted from select tonewoods languishing on someone's wall as a mere status symbol (even if that fine instrument has a glorified sardine can for a bridge and a bad break angle on the A string). A classic is a classic for a reason, and Fender is still building their classic basses to their high standards. My opinion is that you can buy a decidedly more modern bass for the money, one that has taken care of the structural and design issues that exist on every Fender bass. Let's face it: if Fenders were perfect, there wouldn't be so many aftermarket parts made for them.

Yea I mean, enjoy the Squiers man. I don't really think about it in that meta way...it's more like yea here's a great bass that I really like and it says Fender on it.