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Guitar player here, need amp advice for bassist

F

Fingers Freddy

Apr 4, 2012
8
0
#1
I'm the frontman/guitarist for an 80's hard rock/hair metal cover band, and my bassist needs a new rig. Now he's not much of an internet guy, and still gets most of his gear knowledge from magazines and the sales guy at Guitar Center...and he's definitely not a total gearhead like I am.

His last couple rigs were a Hartke 2500 with a 2x15 and most recently a Hartke 5410c combo (which seemed to do the job well enough when we went DI into FOH), but both have suffered from reliability issues...the 5410c is currently out of commission and he used a Line 6 Lowdown for the last 2 gigs.

I mentioned to him that it's probably time to step up to a semi-pro to pro level rig, if nothing else, for the reliability and confidence it would bring (great sound with minimal fuss is a bonus). Cost is a major factor for him but I think he's finally ready to pull the trigger. But he mentioned that he might just pick up another Hartke, which may not be the best plan considering the previous experiences.

So what would be a few good choices that I could pass on to him to try out, considering the music we play and the fact that we're fairly loud onstage (2 guitars and a hard hitting drummer)? In my research, I've picked up on a few ideas:

Ampeg PF500
Marshall MB450H
GK RB700
GK MB500
SWR WorkingPro 400

or maybe something from MarkBass in this price range? I'm pretty sure he's going to want to run a 4x10.

So what would be the thoughts of some of the experts here? I just want him to have some solid advice to point him in the right direction and not rely on the advice of the kid at the local brick & mortar chain. And my extreme guitar gear geekiness probably doesn't qualify me either. :D

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
#3
Pre amp/power amp rig. Lots of good choices. I personally use a Carvin BX1500 bridged for 900w @8ohms into a fEarful 15/6, and it's far superior to any other rig I've ever owned. Not for everyone though. It did teach me that 4-10s are not so great (poor dispersion). Bass likes a lot of juice, especially if you are playing with a very deep sound. 2x15 might be a great choice, with a pre-amp like an SVT, and a good power amp to drive the cab @ 800-1000w. Don't like the tone ? Get a different pre. No need to throw out the whole rig.
Just my 2 cents.
 
#4
The GK stuff will give him the quintessential '80's hard rock sound with a minimum of fuss/knob twisting....think Duff McKagan/Guns-n-Roses. But...so will an Ampeg tube amp or any number of other offerings...including Hartke. I don't know what his previous experiences were but Hartke makes good stuff now and has some of the best customer service in the business. Don't downplay the importance of speakers. For a bass player, they can make or break you. Most of the time, they are the limitation in our rigs. How loud/full sounding you can get before it farts out, and what it sounds like getting pushed past linearity and into distortion. A much bigger deal than with guitar speakers, which are designed to sound nice during breakup.

If I were in an 80's rock band, I'd use the same Gallien-Krueger 800rb I use for everything else, and make good use of the boost knob. A 700rbII will get you there just as well. Then if I didn't make my own speakers, I'd look for a 215 that was a little on the bright side, but still with good lowmids, or an Ampeg SVT810.
 
#5
Well, for starters let me just say that while I've never been a big fan of Hartke heads personally, I'm not sure it's fair to say that Hartke isn't "pro gear". There are many, many bassists out there using Hartke heads on a pro level and I don't think it's unreasonable to guess that, since the mid/late eighties, Hartke gear has contributed in some part to thousands of bass players earning a living. I'm serious. Hartke gear has a huge and loyal following among amateurs, semi-pros and pros alike. It may not be the hot, new thing anymore, but it still certainly qualifies as "pro gear".

With that out of the way, I doubt the SWR would be the top choice for a hair metal band, but the GK stuff could certainly get you there. Marshall is a pretty distinct sort of sound, but it would definitely work in that context.

Without some input from your bassist, it's pretty hard to narrow it down. Your wanting to help him out is noble, to be sure, but his ears are pretty important in the process, y'know?

Peace-
E
 
#6
mixamatchi said:
Pre amp/power amp rig. Lots of good choices. I personally use a Carvin BX1500 bridged for 900w @8ohms into a fEarful 15/6, and it's far superior to any other rig I've ever owned. Not for everyone though. It did teach me that 4-10s are not so great (poor dispersion). Bass likes a lot of juice, especially if you are playing with a very deep sound. 2x15 might be a great choice, with a pre-amp like an SVT, and a good power amp to drive the cab @ 800-1000w. Don't like the tone ? Get a different pre. No need to throw out the whole rig.
Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Thanks mix, something to consider, but like I mentioned, he's not much of a gearhead and the simplicity of setting up and plugging into a great sounding and reliable out-of-the-box rig is going to be key. He's not the type of person that will try different pre's, and definitely not a gear flipper. :) He wants an easy rig for him to dial in and figure out without having to rely on bandmates for technical help... ;)
 
#7
If he's not a gearhead, fine, but he at least needs to learn the basics of how his gear works and why it does what it does. That said, if he wants to simply plug in, turn up, and have "that sound", he needs a GK amp and some decent speakers.
 
#8
will33 said:
The GK stuff will give him the quintessential '80's hard rock sound with a minimum of fuss/knob twisting....think Duff McKagan/Guns-n-Roses. But...so will an Ampeg tube amp or any number of other offerings...including Hartke. I don't know what his previous experiences were but Hartke makes good stuff now and has some of the best customer service in the business. Don't downplay the importance of speakers. For a bass player, they can make or break you. Most of the time, they are the limitation in our rigs. How loud/full sounding you can get before it farts out, and what it sounds like getting pushed past linearity and into distortion. A much bigger deal than with guitar speakers, which are designed to sound nice during breakup.

If I were in an 80's rock band, I'd use the same Gallien-Krueger 800rb I use for everything else, and make good use of the boost knob. A 700rbII will get you there just as well. Then if I didn't make my own speakers, I'd look for a 215 that was a little on the bright side, but still with good lowmids, or an Ampeg SVT810.
Click to expand...

Thanks Will! I didn't mean to come off like I was dissing Hartke, and he did buy those rigs used...but he's really frustrated with how its turned out. I think he needs to get brand new with a warranty since he doesn't work on his own gear. What Hartke's might be in this ballpark for sound/quality?
 
#10
Lo-E said:
Well, for starters let me just say that while I've never been a big fan of Hartke heads personally, I'm not sure it's fair to say that Hartke isn't "pro gear". There are many, many bassists out there using Hartke heads on a pro level and I don't think it's unreasonable to guess that, since the mid/late eighties, Hartke gear has contributed in some part to thousands of bass players earning a living. I'm serious. Hartke gear has a huge and loyal following among amateurs, semi-pros and pros alike. It may not be the hot, new thing anymore, but it still certainly qualifies as "pro gear".

With that out of the way, I doubt the SWR would be the top choice for a hair metal band, but the GK stuff could certainly get you there. Marshall is a pretty distinct sort of sound, but it would definitely work in that context.

Without some input from your bassist, it's pretty hard to narrow it down. Your wanting to help him out is noble, to be sure, but his ears are pretty important in the process, y'know?

Peace-
E
Click to expand...

Thanks E! Sure, of course he will be encouraged to try them all out before he decides, I just want to make sure he's armed with some solid ideas of what would might work for his needs.

I've been telling him he needs to sign up here and start reading, but he's just not a forum guy...although he's really into Facebook...go figure :D
 
#11
Fingers Freddy said:
Thanks mix, something to consider, but like I mentioned, he's not much of a gearhead and the simplicity of setting up and plugging into a great sounding and reliable out-of-the-box rig is going to be key. He's not the type of person that will try different pre's, and definitely not a gear flipper. :) He wants an easy rig for him to dial in and figure out without having to rely on bandmates for technical help... ;)
Click to expand...

Dude, Gear can't last forever, Hartke is as reliable as any brand out there and you can call Larry Hartke directly and he will personally attend to your specific issue. Try getting that from any other company. Seriously, his number is (201) 680 8153.

Look at the Hartke LH500 if he doesn't like to twiddle knobs, they sounds great right out of the box and there's a grand total of four knobs. They're hy-drive cabs are very nice too. New hartke gear is priced very competitively, I would not overlook them so fast.

And BTW, I've had a Hartke HA2000 for about 4 years with never so much as a blown fuse and it has been worked hard!
 
#12
keiththebassist said:
Dude, Gear can't last forever, Hartke is as reliable as any brand out there and you can call Larry Hartke directly and he will personally attend to your specific issue. Try getting that from any other company. Seriously, his number is (201) 680 8153.

Look at the Hartke LH500 if he doesn't like to twiddle knobs, they sounds great right out of the box and there's a grand total of four knobs. They're hy-drive cabs are very nice too. New hartke gear is priced very competitively, I would not overlook them so fast.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks Keith! Again, I didn't mean to dump on Hartke, I was just going by our experiences, which admittedly ain't much.

Now isn't the 5410c basically an LH500 paired with a HyDrive 410 in combo form?
 
#13
A. Combo amps have no place in hard rock, at least not on bass.

B. The LH500 is a great, warm, "tubey" sounding amp, but it uses a fender tonestack. If this guy knows nothing about gear, he won't get a good sound out of it. Bass and Treble are boost only, Mid is cut only, therefore, the so-called "flat" setting is 2-10-2, or even 1-10-1. If the guy set all the tone knobs to 5, or in the middle, he'd have a horribly mid-scooped, bass boosted sound that might sound nice in his bedroom, but will result in nothing but mud and getting lost/buried in the band mix with guitars/drums, etc. It's not the amps fault....it's another case of RTFM......Read The F?#$&@! Manual, and again, not having to be a gearhead, but at least knowing how your gear works. Sounds to me like the guy is going to have to take an interest in his own craft to sound any better than he does now. Also, if he learns a little bit, he will get much better performance out of the gear he does have, rather than constantly buying new gear and thinking it sucks too, because he doesn't take the time/put in the effort to learn how to operate it.
 
#17
Does he have a decent bass? If so. I'd spend more money on a very good cab and go with an easy to use, reliable used head. You can pick up about anything you want right here on TB. Genz/Trace/Markbass etc.

Does he still have the 2 - 15 cab?
 
#19
Fingers Freddy said:
So 2x15 with maybe a driver is the way to go? He always complained that you couldn't hear notes played up higher on the neck, and figured it was not enough highs in the cab...probably more due to eq or technique?
Click to expand...

Fundamental of low e is 40 hz.

7th fret on the a string is 80 hz.

9th fret on the g string is 160 hz.

17th fret on the g string is 320 hz.

1st and second harmonic (double these numbers) define most of the energy in a bass signal. Highs add attack, but these are the frequencies that remain after the attack. So he needs to make sure these are strong.

And you, mister six string, should give him some space down there. You need to yield either this range or 700-1000 so he's got some kind of midrange space he can live in.
 
#20
As the others have posted already, G-K is a great match for hair metal, but you'll also get great results with Genz-Benz, Mesa, Hartke, Ampeg, Laney, Trace Elliot, etc...

I think Will33 is definitely on the right track here: for plug and play simplicity, get one of the aforementioned amps and a really good cab and have at it. A good 2x15 will fit the bill, but if it was me and I was carrying something that big anyway, I'd go with an Ampeg 8x10 "fridge". With almost any decent head, it's really hard to get a bad hard rock tone out of a fridge.

Also, any company is capable of fantastic reliability or breakdown nightmares. If you spend any amount of time on TB you'll read a "best amp in the world" post for every "my worst nightmare" post. For example, I've had no trouble at all in 20 years with my Ampeg SVT 3 Pro, but I've read tons of posts about people having all kinds of problems with them. It seems every company has good periods and bad and they're all capable of producing a lemon.

In the eighties, nearly every club had a G-K RB400 or RB800 as a backline amp. Lots and lots of pros were using them at that time, too. The old RB800s loved to get really hot, and they'd often blow themselves up. It didn't stop people from using them. They were powerful and smaller than an SVT and sounded good. Now, 30 years later, G-K is one of the biggest players in the bass amp business despite building their reputation on an amp that was known for blowing up! Go figure....
 

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