Guitar player thinks my tone is thin - is it?

[Elmstreet]

Looking for some advice, I got some feedback from our new lead guitar player that my tone could use some more low end, which was a first for me.

His quote was something like this "Hey man, I feel like your tone could use a bit more low end, it's sounding a little bit thin"

I haven't gotten this feedback before from any other band members or sound guys, and I usually probably have too much to honest. Either way I told him lets mess around with it next show, He can stand out where the audience will be and I'll twist some knobs to see if we can get it sounding better and thicker. I'm open to whatever changes make us sound the best.

We happened to have someone there recording the gig he was referring to, so I have quite a few clips I can share. I want to see what you guys think, I like the way my tone is sounding but who knows, maybe it is thin. Some of the clips I'm attacking the strings hard with a pick, some I'm playing softer with fingers, so hopefully that gives an OK reference point. These were recorded on a professional camera, not a phone.

Clip 1


Clip 2


Clip 3


Clip 4


Clip 5


Clip 6



The next question is, how do I go about diagnosing this problem? To me there are sooo many factors to this, so I almost need the help of you guys to know what pieces of information to give you guys / get from him to get to the bottom of what I should do.

One thing I have gotten clearly from him is the "where". He has mentioned this when standing in front of the stage, usually around where the dance floor is at multiple different venues. So I agree with him that regardless of how it sounds to me on stage, it should sound nice and full to the audience on the dance floor.


My plan was just to simply mess around with the bass knob and HPF knob on my amp and see if it's as easy as that. I'm worried though, that I'm going to turn the bass up so much to where it sounds good out front, but not on stage. Now obviously this is where a sound guy comes in, but most gigs we don't have one, and we don't have a sub. BUT the particular gig he mentioned this, we had a sub and a sound guy.

Equipment: Mesa 800D head with an Ampeg Venture 212 cab, P bass with rounds that has SD Antiquity 2 pickups in it. FOH gets a post eq DI out of my amp. For pedals I'm just using a Cali76 compressor always on and a dirt pedal that gets kicked on maybe 20% of the time

Here are the amp settings I run. The bass / HPF knob move around a little bit depending on room / venue.

Any feedback would be much appreciated!

 

[MonetBass]

Based on the videos, I'd agree with the guitar player. Your sound definitely lacks low end.
EDIT: As others have stated, it's hard to tell due to the quality of those videos.

I'm not familiar with that amp, so I can't be much help there.

 

[red_rhino]

Your tone is fine. Sits in the mix perfectly IMO. One thing I dislike as an audience member is when the bass is too omnipresent. Remember, what you hear on stage is not what the audience hears. Unless you’re getting those comments from other band members or people in the audience, I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[TommyGunz]

First I'd like to say that it is extremely hard to judge bass tone from live recordings like this.

Second that tone sounds pretty good to me.

Third, and again its hard to tell, but maybe its lacking a bit of the deep rumble. I see you have the HPF set to 4. By my calculations that equals about 60Hz. Seems a little high to me.

 

[Tom Gallo]

Tell the guitar player to worry about their own tone.

 

[Elmstreet]

First I'd like to say that it is extremely hard to judge bass tone from live recordings like this.

Second that tone sounds pretty good to me.

Third, and again its hard to tell, but maybe its lacking a bit of the deep rumble. I see you have the HPF set to 4. By my calculations that equals about 60Hz. Seems a little high to me.

That was the first thing I was going to try, to pull that back and see how boomy it gets. I normally just set this knob by ear while standing next to it, but maybe I need to have someone stand out front and give me feedback when I'm setting it.

 

[Elmstreet]

Tell the guitar player to worry about their own tone.

This was definitely my first instinct but he's being nice enough about it so I'm willing to explore it I suppose.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Tell the guitar player to worry about their own tone.

I disagree. If you cannot trust the people on stage to have honest, respectful, adult conversations about sound then what are you even doing playing in a band? If you want to sound like crap no matter what anyone thinks then you may as well just stay at home and play with yourself. Live performance means adapting to the environment, including the room, the audience, and yes, the other musicians you are performing with.

 

[ceetee]

One thing I have gotten clearly from him is the "where". He has mentioned this when standing in front of the stage, usually around where the dance floor is at multiple different venues. So I agree with him that regardless of how it sounds to me on stage, it should sound nice and full to the audience on the dance floor.

What was the context when standing there? Sound check? Show? Rehearsal? Was he playing while standing there? Did he hear you in the full context? You could walk out there too if your cable is long enough or you are using transmitters. Or you could put yourself on a looper and listen to yourself from out there. Also empty rooms sound quite differently from full ones. Just brainstorming. Like your stuff! I would get me some more lows (hpf) but I've been listening on some not so good headphones tho... always difficult to evaluate live recordings anyway.

I'm thinking about getting the same head/cab combi, so I'll stick around.

 

[Ggaa]

Sounds like it wasn't mentioned until you asked....Too thin for what?? Can you hear what you need to hear? If yes, don't change it. Is FOH is having a problem? If gtr player is in the 'bass is supposed to be bassy' crowd put some in his monitor. I set my Hi Pass around 80 by ear most rooms, let kick drum do it's bit. As you aren't too loud, try turning up. Make sure it's a not a stage volume thing. Your stage tone is for you.

 

[richntiff]

It's so hard to tell from a YT video, but if I had to guess, I'd tend to agree, back the HPF off just a little. Your tone is mid-forward, which is great for cutting through, but you want a bit more heft there as well. Again, VERY hard to tell from a video. Honestly, from the video, I think the guitar tones aren't too great. I rather like your bass tone

 

[Ggaa]

I disagree. If you cannot trust the people on stage to have honest, respectful, adult conversations about sound then what are you even doing playing in a band? If you want to sound like crap no matter what anyone thinks then you may as well just stay at home and play with yourself. Live performance means adapting to the environment, including the room, the audience, and yes, the other musicians you are performing with.

I disagree. If you cannot trust the people on stage to have honest, respectful, adult conversations about sound then what are you even doing playing in a band? If you want to sound like crap no matter what anyone thinks then you may as well just stay at home and play with yourself. Live performance means adapting to the environment, including the room, the audience, and yes, the other musicians you are performing with.

They don't always know what they are talking about, other than liking or disliking.

 

[Elmstreet]

What was the context when standing there? Sound check? Show? Rehearsal?

Once was at sound check, me playing by myself, and this more recent comment was after a gig as we were looking through the footage we got. He was commenting on the tone from the videos, and saying he felt that way at the gig also.

Walking out front is probably the easiest and most obvious thing, I might bring a long an extra long cord for a few gigs just to do that and hear what he hears.

BTW I highly recommend the 800D if you’re considering it, I love that amp so much.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[pepj]

It's so hard to tell from a YT video.....Honestly, from the video, I think the guitar tones aren't too great. I rather like your bass tone

I like the bass and drums...they are interesting.
Not too keen on the gtrs..they could do with working their parts out soundwise.

Is new gtr a replacement or addition.
If the former, new gtr needs to fit in with the band, if the latter, he needs to work on his parts. He is playing them ok...but two slash gtrs makes for a messy mix which is kind of what you have.
However, if you want a quick fix, then maybe thicken up.the bass to give more support.
Kind of think this is classic deflection on new guy's part though.

 

[RattleSnack]

To me, it does sound thin. Adding low end would much help in making band sound fuller. That is, if I was to trust audio from that recording. But video/audio recordings from smart phones have gotten much better (full audio range) in last 5 years.
As for HPF, it is adjusted according to room acoustics and it can be higher or lower than 60Hz. But in general, that specific freq is reasonable.
If you are not sure how much Bass to add on control on amp EQ, just bump it up and play until guitar player, standing in front of the stage gives you thumbs up.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Video's Audio not very good overall almost sounds like some frequency cancellations at times;

This is best bet also include listening by Guitar Players Spot on stage then compare to what your hearing

"Walking out front is probably the easiest and most obvious thing, I might bring a long an extra long cord for a few gigs just to do that and hear what he hears."

 

[DWA2469]

Sounds fine to me!

 

[JonathanPDX]

They don't always know what they are talking about, other than liking or disliking.

If nobody likes how you sound it's a pretty good indicator you need to change something. If people you perform with don't like your sound and give you feedback then you'd be a fool not to evaluate things and see if changes need to be made.

If your ego is so fragile that you cannot take any criticism or feedback from anyone then what the hell are you even doing playing a supporting rhythm instrument in an ensemble?

 

[FullumMusic]

We'll never be able to judge your actual tone from a phone microphone. The frequency response curve of a phone's mic, plus other baked-in filtration phones have going on behind the scenes will never be an accurate representation of what it actually sounds like. And that's not even getting into where they're standing in relation to your amp, the PA, the monitors, or combination of the 3, and the angle the mic is from all those sources.

 

[carsonchilders]

I mean if someone thinks I should use more bass I'll at least try it. Obviously more bass = more fun