Guitar player thinks my tone is thin - is it?

[allanhearn]

Sounds like a good rock tone. Seams to fit what your band is doing well. If you like what's coming out of your cab, it may be the sound guy. DOESNT hurt to turn a few knobs to be polite. Lightly touch the 250k area. Or better yet the one marked volume.

 

[shirojiro]

I think the bass tone sounds great. It's articulate and clear. Too much bottom end and it will end up muddy.

 

[DeepHz]

Sounds good to me! Thin? No way. How could a Mesa head an Ampeg cab be thin?????

 

[Ricoco]

I feel if the comment was made from the footage it’s fair to question (the comment that is, not the low end). As others have said, camera/phone microphones don’t really have the ability to represent the low end. If he’d have said it to you after soundcheck or even directly after the gig, that would make more sense to me.

That said that rig should be more than capable of producing enough low end for that context. I’d consider bringing the HPF back and a bit and therefore maybe not boosting the bass as much either. I also agree with the comments that it’s good to have these constructive conversations as a band! But it has to be the right context. Do you guys use a rehearsal space where this could be explored together?

 

[el murdoque]

The bass might be a little on the thinner side of things, but it's sitting good in that mix, because the guitars are anorexic.
I do think the bass tone is just fine as it is. When the band is lacking ooomph, then I'd address guitar tone first.

 

[Johnny Fingers]

Put an additional cabinet next to the chickenscratcher’s twangy amp and rattle his earwax loose.
Sounds like he damaged his hearing at some point.

 

[Swerve]

Wait there are bands where the guitarist even notices the bass player??

 

[Elmstreet]

I rather like your bass tone

Well thank you sir, I appreciate that. I think it sounds pretty ok, but what do I know.

 

[James Hart]

maybe slight compression... but your tone sounds good and suits the material IMHO. Perhaps more volume / a second cabinet instead of adding boom.

 

[InhumanResource]

Looking for some advice, I got some feedback from our new lead guitar player that my tone could use some more low end, which was a first for me.

His quote was something like this "Hey man, I feel like your tone could use a bit more low end, it's sounding a little bit thin"

I haven't gotten this feedback before from any other band members or sound guys, and I usually probably have too much to honest. Either way I told him lets mess around with it next show, He can stand out where the audience will be and I'll twist some knobs to see if we can get it sounding better and thicker. I'm open to whatever changes make us sound the best.

We happened to have someone there recording the gig he was referring to, so I have quite a few clips I can share. I want to see what you guys think, I like the way my tone is sounding but who knows, maybe it is thin. Some of the clips I'm attacking the strings hard with a pick, some I'm playing softer with fingers, so hopefully that gives an OK reference point. These were recorded on a professional camera, not a phone.

Clip 1


Clip 2


Clip 3


Clip 4


Clip 5


Clip 6



The next question is, how do I go about diagnosing this problem? To me there are sooo many factors to this, so I almost need the help of you guys to know what pieces of information to give you guys / get from him to get to the bottom of what I should do.

One thing I have gotten clearly from him is the "where". He has mentioned this when standing in front of the stage, usually around where the dance floor is at multiple different venues. So I agree with him that regardless of how it sounds to me on stage, it should sound nice and full to the audience on the dance floor.


My plan was just to simply mess around with the bass knob and HPF knob on my amp and see if it's as easy as that. I'm worried though, that I'm going to turn the bass up so much to where it sounds good out front, but not on stage. Now obviously this is where a sound guy comes in, but most gigs we don't have one, and we don't have a sub. BUT the particular gig he mentioned this, we had a sub and a sound guy.

Equipment: Mesa 800D head with an Ampeg Venture 212 cab, P bass with rounds that has SD Antiquity 2 pickups in it. FOH gets a post eq DI out of my amp. For pedals I'm just using a Cali76 compressor always on and a dirt pedal that gets kicked on maybe 20% of the time

Here are the amp settings I run. The bass / HPF knob move around a little bit depending on room / venue.

View attachment 7403658

View attachment 7403659

Any feedback would be much appreciated!

I think it sounds pretty good. IMO you sounded the best on the Green Day tune. On the 3rd eye blind I think you actually need more mids, I lost you when you played higher register and the low stuff was boomy/dark.

 

[Elmstreet]

I mean if someone thinks I should use more bass I'll at least try it. Obviously more bass = more fun

It's definitely better than him telling me to turn down I suppose!

 

[Elmstreet]

I think it sounds pretty good. IMO you sounded the best on the Green Day tune. On the 3rd eye blind I think you actually need more mids, I lost you when you played higher register and the low stuff was boomy/dark.

Interesting, I appreciate the feedback. I play the 3rd eye blind tune with fingers and I wondering if my attack just isn't as consistent, which wouldn't surprise me because I'm more comfortable with a pick which is what I'm using on the Green Day tune.

 

[Elmstreet]

You're all miced into FOH right?

FOH gets a DI out of my amp, I asked if he preferred pre or post and he said it was up to me, so I sent him a post eq line.

 

[Elmstreet]

Sounds like a good rock tone. Seams to fit what your band is doing well. If you like what's coming out of your cab, it may be the sound guy. DOESNT hurt to turn a few knobs to be polite. Lightly touch the 250k area. Or better yet the one marked volume.

I appreciate that, a grindy p bass rock tone is pretty much what I'm going for. I do like what is coming out of my cab, pretty happy with it. But yeah, I'll turn some knobs for him, no big deal.

 

[Ggaa]

FOH gets a DI out of my amp, I asked if he preferred pre or post and he said it was up to me, so I sent him a post eq line.

Ime they usually on insist on pre..
Anyway ears pick up things differently than recording devices.

 

[sean_on_bass]

can't tell much from the videos, but i would simply turn off the HPF. That's a hard cut to your low end that should be used only on an as needed basis IMO. If you end up in a room with muddy low end or uncontrollable feedback, then dial it up as needed to eliminate the issue.

 

[Wasnex]

I disagree. If you cannot trust the people on stage to have honest, respectful, adult conversations about sound then what are you even doing playing in a band? If you want to sound like crap no matter what anyone thinks then you may as well just stay at home and play with yourself. Live performance means adapting to the environment, including the room, the audience, and yes, the other musicians you are performing with.

I don't necessarily think the OP should be rude (at least just yet), but I do agree that it's not really the guitar players place determine how the bass sounds. I am normally willing to make some minor adjustments. However if the guitar player gets too pushy or judgy, I would have a private conversation with him about who is responsible for my tone. Unless the guitar player is the group leader, it's not going to be his call and it's not acceptable for him to give me grief about it. Sometimes personal boundaries must be set and enforced, especially with guitar players.

Something to keep in mind: The way the bass sounds on stage is likely to sound quite different from the way it sounds out in the audience. Let's assume the amp is carrying the room. As the sound from the bass amp travels over distance, it will get darker and more diffuse. So it's often useful for the bass to sound a bit bright and thin on stage. This can help the bass sound better out in the audience.

Having a thinner bass sound on stage can also be beneficial if the PA has subs. If the lows from the bass amp and subs reaches the audience at approximately the same volume, the differences in arrival times can cause the low end to be smeered/incoherent. My feeling is to thin out the lows on stage, so my sound is not fighting with the PA.

If anyone besides the bass player is going to call shots on how the bass sounds on stage, it should be the group leader or perhaps the audio tech. My feeling is professional musicians should prioritize the listening experience for the audience to some degree. So the sound of the bass should be assessed from the audience area rather than on stage.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

1. You have the “deep” switch engaged on the head. Does that scoop midrange as well as push low end? It could be scooping some useable low mids that’d fill out your sound.
2. The sound on stage is not the same as the sound in the audience. Depending upon where the guitarist was standing, he could have been getting the off-axis tone with the low end phased out.
3. He may have said “low end” but dollars to donuts he’s talking about low mids, ~100 - 250Hz, where the Pbass lives.

My suggestions, absolutely blind:
Turn up the HPF on the Cali76 to let more low end through.
Turn off the “deep” switch, as it usually only pushes frequencies that a soundman will cut off anyway and give to the kick pedal.
And if you need to, push the mids a little more, or specifically the low mids if you can.
Let the Pbass sit where it does naturally.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I haven't gotten this feedback before from any other band members or sound guys,

Not everyone is willing to be candid with criticism, but even so, it's the only complaint you've received. I honestly wouldn't take it too seriously. Can't please everyone. For all you know, the guitarist wants more woof and less punch from you to leave more sonic space for him. Perhaps that's harsh, but IMO you have a nice punchy tone. I believe bass should punch, and not be low end rumble.

Your sound tech's opinion is what really matters. The guitarist shouldn't be concerned one bit with how you sound onstage. If he persists with the lack of low end nonsense, tell him that too much low end onstage can cause significant problems: reduce note definition, conflict with the kick drum, create phase problems with the FOH subs.

 

[Wasnex]

If nobody likes how you sound it's a pretty good indicator you need to change something.

That's not what the OP said though, is it?:

I got some feedback from our new lead guitar player that my tone could use some more low end, which was a first for me.

...I haven't gotten this feedback before from any other band members or sound guys, and I usually probably have too much to honest.