Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses

[steve_rolfeca]

I’m playing at church tomorrow, and we’re doing a bunch of modern Christmas carol interpretations, including Shane and Shane’s arrangement of Oh Come Oh Come Emmanuel:


My back is a lot better than it was a couple of weeks ago, so I pulled out my Dingwall to see if I could last through a one hour set.

Half-way through, my leg was buzzing pretty bad, so I switched to the 4 lb Ibanez. After running a couple of tunes, it was a shock to realize that the weight didn’t matter- the AVNB1E simply fits this setlist better.

It turns out that the extra tension from the La Bella CB40’s has pulled the action a hair higher. No worries- the top is still flat, the relief is correct, etc.

Running the action higher introduces a little more of the resistance I’m used to on my full-sized basses, and lets me dig in harder. The result is a strong, woody tone that sits nicely in the mix, and perfectLy complements the slow, groove-based nature of tomorrow’s set.

I just went from liking the Ibby as a nice little travel toy, to seeing it in a more serious light. I just had to sell my electric upright, my PJ and some other stuff in order to pay some bills, so it’s nice to know that the parlor bass is a serious alternative for smaller, “unplugged” gigs where I would have normally taken the NXT.

It also makes me feel better about having stepped up to the AVNB1E. The $250 US PNB14E actually makes more sense as a beater for around the house, because of the low price, bound body and laminated top.

But I don’t consider $500 US to be too much for an instrument that inspires me, and will see regular rotation on gigs. The balanced output and more rugged jackplate, Fishman sonicore pickup, solid spruce top and slightly wider fingerboard, are all pluses from my POV.

 

[SBassman]

Excellent. Great post.

 

[SBassman]

I’m playing at church tomorrow, and we’re doing a bunch of modern Christmas carol interpretations, including Shane and Shane’s arrangement of Oh Come Oh Come Emmanuel:

Thanks for sharing it. That sounds great to me - fresh and not like so much other Christmas music. I'm off to go buy that. Thanks.

 

[tymbrewolf]

Just thought this was interesting

 

[tymbrewolf]

Put some old thunderguts on the microbass tonight. They play so much easier than the copper wounds and give that urb sound I was missing. Intonation isn't much different.

 

[pcake]

Just thought this was interesting

my shoulder hurts just looking at that!

 

[Will_White]

Winter Build Off project

 

[KohanMike]

Winter Build Off project
View attachment 3253409

I thought it would be few and far between to see fret markers similar to mine, which are stick on, but there you go. I even put a matching set on the strap.

 

[rrgramps]

It’s been a while since I’ve posted here, and because of the recent influx of acoustic-guitar oriented threads, the impulse to renew my account became too overwhelming.

Not only have I been lurking long enough, but also have ordered an Ibanez PNB14E. FedEx is on the road to deliver it as I type this. I’m hoping it will fit the niche in between my rubber-stringed Kala/Haeden basses and my full-size Fender/G&L/Ibanez basses. They’ve all been good to me, and have been used in many local (and some not local) gigs.

Hopefully, it won’t be a lemon. Regardless, I will report out, soon after unboxing it.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

It’s been a while since I’ve posted here, and because of the recent influx of acoustic-guitar oriented threads, the impulse to renew my account became too overwhelming.

Not only have I been lurking long enough, but also have ordered an Ibanez PNB14E. FedEx is on the road to deliver it as I type this. I’m hoping it will fit the niche in between my rubber-stringed Kala/Haeden basses and my full-size Fender/G&L/Ibanez basses. They’ve all been good to me, and have been used in many local (and some not local) gigs.

Hopefully, it won’t be a lemon. Regardless, I will report out, soon after unboxing it.

Very nice!

I have the “antique” version (AVNB1E). Aside from the finish, the only practical differences are the solid top and Fishman piezo element on mine.

I think you’ll find it a worthy addition to your stable. As you point out, it occupies a useful middle ground between the small size and faux upright sound of the Uke basses, and full size acoustic and solid body EB’s.

 

[rrgramps]

Very nice!

I have the “antique” version (AVNB1E). Aside from the finish, the only practical differences are the solid top and Fishman piezo element on mine.

I think you’ll find it a worthy addition to your stable. As you point out, it occupies a useful middle ground between the small size and faux upright sound of the Uke basses, and full size acoustic and solid body EB’s.

Thanks Steve. I’ve unboxed it, and it plays just fine acoustically. But I’m afraid the pickup/preamp is dead. Tried a new battery, and that didn’t work. I even played my Haeden through the amp, for a sound check, then swapped its 9v battery—still no sound from the Ibanez through the amp. All wires are properly routed into the jack and preamp. Not going to disassemble it though. Guess I will return it.

OTOH, It’s so nice to pick up a bass, noodle with it, and hear it resonate loudly without an amp!
—————
EDIT 1/09/19
Finally received notice of my refund from the vendor at Amazon, (I think). Waiting for it to show up in my credit, so I know it’s there for real. Then I’m going to do it again. I’ll report on that in a future post.

 

[deepyellow]

Have been scouring this thread for some time now and appreciate everyone's input.

Am leaning towards a Sojourn 4K and am curious to what tapewounds (mentioned in posts prior) might work on it.

La Bella's website explicitly states:

"Only the silk portion of the string should wrap around the tuning post or else the string will break."

2nd choice would be flats (La Bella Microbass?) and halfwounds (D'Addario ENR71S?) a distant 3rd.

Any foreseeable intonation issues on a fretted 4K with the above string options or issues cutting the ENR71S to 24.75" scale length?

Also curious as to whether anyone has actually purchased a 4K (they only seem to be sold online at Sam Ash and I live outside the US...) and their thoughts having spent some time with the instrument.

Thanks in advance!

 

[SBassman]

Have been scouring this thread for some time now and appreciate everyone's input.

Am leaning towards a Sojourn 4K and am curious to what tapewounds (mentioned in posts prior) might work on it.

La Bella's website explicitly states:

"Only the silk portion of the string should wrap around the tuning post or else the string will break."

2nd choice would be flats (La Bella Microbass?) and halfwounds (D'Addario ENR71S?) a distant 3rd.

Any foreseeable intonation issues on a fretted 4K with the above string options or issues cutting the ENR71S to 24.75" scale length?

Also curious as to whether anyone has actually purchased a 4K (they only seem to be sold online at Sam Ash and I live outside the US...) and their thoughts having spent some time with the instrument.

Thanks in advance!

Interesting strings you have cited. You will find dialog on them scattered around here, and I'm sure my name will be among some of the posts. This whole string thing with these sub short scales is a bit of a pain.

Lots of flats Will crack if you cut them and try to wind them on a post without taper.

Good question with the 71S strings. I *thought* I used to cut them and use them in the past, but:
1. My memory is shot
2. I had a string dealer insist to me that they will definitely crack. I will probably have to risk the bucks and try for myself again because I used to like those strings and I *thought* I used to successfully cut and wind them.

The last DAddario set I tried to cut and wind - nickelwounds - did break on me.

My current success, for a solid body at this scale, is with Ernie Ball Slinkies. The 6 string Silhouette set. I successfully cut and wound those on two basses.

No experience yet with the Sojourn 4K. I did have my hands on the original Sojourn, and I thought it was a great build. The 4K looks beautiful.

 

[macmanlou]

Have been scouring this thread for some time now and appreciate everyone's input.

Am leaning towards a Sojourn 4K and am curious to what tapewounds (mentioned in posts prior) might work on it.

La Bella's website explicitly states:

"Only the silk portion of the string should wrap around the tuning post or else the string will break."

2nd choice would be flats (La Bella Microbass?) and halfwounds (D'Addario ENR71S?) a distant 3rd.

Any foreseeable intonation issues on a fretted 4K with the above string options or issues cutting the ENR71S to 24.75" scale length?

Also curious as to whether anyone has actually purchased a 4K (they only seem to be sold online at Sam Ash and I live outside the US...) and their thoughts having spent some time with the instrument.

Thanks in advance!

The Sojourn 4K uses hex core D'Addario EXPPBB170S Coated Phosphor Bronze 045 .065, .080, .100 strings. D'Addario short scale Chromes ECB81S are the same gauges (probably no nut filing needed to install), with about 10% more tension, so you'd probably have to tighten the truss rod just a bit. The only other factor that might keep you from using them on the Sojourn, though, is their length, which is 30 1/2 inches from ball to silk. I have successfully wound the wrapped portion of Chromes on larger tuning machines, but that could be trickier on the Sojourn's small tuning posts. Measure your stock strings from ball to tuning post to see how much extra wrap the Chromes would have. You have to leave at least a wrap or two of the silk portion of the string when cutting them.

D'Addario also has EXL170S Nickel Wound Bass, Light, 45-100, Short Scale roundwound strings, and ENR71S Half Rounds Bass, Regular Light, 45-100, Short Scale. Both are the same gauges as your stock strings. The rounds have a little less tension than the phosphor, the half rounds have a little more. Both would be easier to wind on your tuning pegs than the Chromes. Any of these would be less bright than the stock bronze.

One nice thing about the Sojourn is its strung-through bridge, which is much easier for string changes than dealing with bridge pins.

 

[Will_White]

Winter Build Off project
View attachment 3253409

Project underway for those who are interested.
Winter Build Off 2019: Acoustic Cigar Box Parlour Bass

 

[steve_rolfeca]

The Sojourn 4K uses hex core D'Addario EXPPBB170S Coated Phosphor Bronze 045 .065, .080, .100 strings.

D'Addario also has EXL170S Nickel Wound Bass, Light, 45-100, Short Scale roundwound strings, and ENR71S Half Rounds Bass, Regular Light, 45-100, Short Scale. Both are the same gauges as your stock strings. The rounds have a little less tension than the phosphor, the half rounds have a little more. Both would be easier to wind on your tuning pegs than the Chromes. Any of these would be less bright than the stock bronze.

One nice thing about the Sojourn is its strung-through bridge, which is much easier for string changes than dealing with bridge pins.

This got me thinking about string tension and alternate strings again.

Not feeling like farting around in spreadsheets again, I decided to have another try with D'Addario's custom set calculator:

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It's interesting to me that Michael Kelly have set the Sojourn 4K up for about 93lb total string tension. It gives you a lot more leeway in terms of alternate string sets, compared to others that are set up around the EPPBB190GS nylon core strings. The nylon cores are down in the low 60's, depending on scale length.

String Tension Pro is a bit quirky when you're trying to substitute other string types. If you change the parameters in the wrong order, it throws errors.

However, this time I did figure out how to use it, and it started popping up some interesting options. When I double-checked the suggestions for online pricing, I found out that many of them involve gauges that aren't commercially available. I expect this is for small volume builders and specialty stores- you probably have to place a minimum order.

Still, it did provide another interesting option for nickel plated steel core strings that won't stress the Taylor and Ibanez, and can be immediately ordered as singles from JustStrings.com. The gauges are .035 to .090, so there shouldn't be any problem with cutting them and wrapping the E around the post on the stock tuners.

XLB035, XLB050, XB065S, and XLB090. Only $21.83 plus shipping at the current sale price, so I ordered a set to check out.

On my 25" scale Ibanez, it comes in within half a pound total string pull compared to the stock strings, and the tensions are better balanced- 1.83lb variation across the whole set, as opposed to about three and a half with the stock strings. It ought to work fine on the Taylor as well.

 

[deepyellow]

@macmanlou, the stock D'Addario EXPPBB170S Coated Phosphor strings on the Sojourn 4K are listed to support "string scale length of up to 32 inches" on the D'Addario website:

[This invalid link has been removed]

as are the rounds you mentioned:

EXL170S Nickel Wound Bass, Light, 45-100, Short Scale
[This invalid link has been removed]


Confusingly, the other 2 strings mentioned simultaneously state scale length of up to 30 and 32 inches on the D'Addario website (could they be shorter ball to silk than the EXPPBB170S/EXL170S?):

ECB81S Chromes Bass, Light, 45-100, Short Scale
[This invalid link has been removed]

ENR71S Half Rounds Bass, Regular Light, 45-100, Short Scale
[This invalid link has been removed]


I am most interested though in tapewounds and have emailed D'Addario to see if the below and above options will fit the Sojourn 4K (don't see any ball to silk measurements on the D'Addario website):

ETB92S Tapewound Bass, Medium, 50-105, Short Scale
[This invalid link has been removed]


Another possibility that was mentioned in this thread were bass IV strings which do appear to come in the tapewound variety at "30" Scale / 35.5" String Winding Length (Distance from Ball-end to Silk)" by Labella:

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I am concerned that 35.5" ball to silk represents an 11" difference past bridge and nut for the 24.5" scale length Sojourn 4k.

To my understanding, it is not advisable to wrap non-silk portions around the tuners?

Since stock strings are 100 for the E, it appears that filing the saddle might be necessary to fit the 105 (while we're at it, any foreseeable issues moving down to a 95?).

Also wanted to confirm that the Sojourn 4K would not require other permanent modifications to accommodate said strings as mentioned in this thread with the Microbass 25 (the intonation issues mentioned for their fretted models with alternate strings were a concern)

Am curious as to whether you are in possession of a 4K for spec/string option confirm (none to be found here in my neck of the woods...)


@Steve, the AVNB1E is a fine looking bass and curious to know how the set you ordered worked out.

My research did show the strings you listed to be longer than the listed 25" scale and want to know if you ended up with any silk available for the tuning pegs.

You also mentioned that rope core strings would not work well with the Sojourn 4K.

Does this mean I should rule out the GS Mini and Microbass flats?

Thanks again and will update here if and when I hear back from D'Addario!

 

[tymbrewolf]

Microbass flats are simply a specialty labella deep talkin series flat shortened with silks for 23 to 25 inch. They are quite taut at under 23 inch on my converted squier mini guitar bass. Would not put them on an acoustic unless I had the money to waste on a test piece. Labella does not provide specs for their strings. Gold tone tested by leaving them strung up on prototypes for several weeks to see if they caused any structural damage before selling them.

 

[macmanlou]

Am curious as to whether you are in possession of a 4K for spec/string option confirm (none to be found here in my neck of the woods...)

I owned a Sojourn 4 about 5-6 years ago and passed it along to an aspiring young player. Back then I couldn't get any advice from the folks at Michael Kelley about the stock strings, much less the possibilities of using any alternatives. I'm happier with 30-31" scale basses and am looking forward to getting a Guild B-240EF fretless acoustic for myself.

 

[tymbrewolf]

Will have ghs pressurewound ml7200 to test on my microbass by friday.