Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses

[steve_rolfeca]

I just bought a used Guild Jumbo Junior ABG with tired OE strings. I'd be glad of opinions on what replacements for D'Addario PBs are currently available that fit this little bass as a drop-in, play in tune, and possibly make less string noise. I play in unamplified acoustic folk bands and noodle acoustically in the house. I'll be amping just enough that my Bass Micro Cube RX will do it, and any decent sound like classic ABG with a bit of DB and maybe some fretless style 'Bwah' on slides would be great. Clank, Boing, Rumble and Bap! would probably get me expelled, even if I could make them sounds. Thanks, Max

Drop-in fit:
La Bella CB40-BE. A little more tension, so they don't roll under your fingers as much. Slightly bigger, warmer sound, and as they play in, they get a nice, vocal quality- not quite a mwah or bwah, but definitely in that direction. Also, they're significantly cheaper and longer-lasting than the D'Addarios. I get mine from Strings By Mail. Dollars to donuts, Jason at Fret Nation probably carries them as well.

D'Addario has a new XT version of the originals. It's still a coated bronze round over a nylon strand core. Don't know if it's just new packaging or actually different from the originals, but MSRP has gone up again- pushing pretty close to $50 now.

Finger noise:
Any new set, including another pack of D'Addarios, will have a LOT more midrange and treble detail than the tired set that you have now.

The cool thing about that, is that you can roll the treble off quite a bit (like close to 50%) before you start to lose the growl and detail that you need for a good Upright bass imitation. As you roll off the treble, the finger noise lowers as well.

This is also an area where the La Bellas beat out the D'Addarios. Less noise out of the box, and you can lower the tone control further without losing the acoustic character of the instrument.

Maybe, not tested yet:
Martin's new string for the new Djr-10 and 000jr-10 basses. US list is only $30, making them almost as cheap as the La Bellas. According to an early review from someone else on this thread, they might also shorten the sustain a bit, for more "DB thump":
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Pyramid has a new chrome nickel flatwound set. This is the most expensive option so far, once you add shipping. They're advertised as being compatible with the Guild, but that it remains to be proven. Although the packaging identifies them as being for the Taylor GS-Mini, they're apparent not a fit on the Taylor because of their weird split bridge pin:
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[Karl Kaminski]

Hey Steve, have you tried the Fisoma silver on nylon sets? Ive been trying them for 34" long scale—but I saw them for short scale online as well—I wonder if they've moved into the guitar-scale market yet? (they have guitar orch sets/tunings)

I wish Pyramid would make those minisets in long scale!

 

[HaphAsSard]

I wish Pyramid would make those minisets in long scale!

My gut feeling is, they'd probably be immediately amenable to a custom order of the four in a longer length: the low B, they may or may not be as willing to make. Who knows.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Hey Steve, have you tried the Fisoma silver on nylon sets? Ive been trying them for 34" long scale—but I saw them for short scale online as well—I wonder if they've moved into the guitar-scale market yet? (they have guitar orch sets/tunings)

I wish Pyramid would make those minisets in long scale!

Score!

Two wins in one post- I haven't heard of Lord of the Strings, or Lenzner/Fisoma before. Thank you for posting the link to your other thread.

The menus are a bit hard to figure out (my normal Strings by Mail search for "contrabass guitar" didn't turn up what I was looking for). Still, there's some really interesting reading over at LOTS. Have you ever tried Galli or Dragão? I see that Dragão has three different tensions for their standard 4-string bass set.

Lord of the Strings

Fisoma pricing is great, and there are some interesting alternative offerings there. Silver over nylon in 30" scale as well as 34", for instance. Some higher-pitched sets for people playing solo stuff (ie; A G D C), etc., and even B to D an octave up as a piccolo bass option...

I didn't see anything in guitar-scale, though.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

I was really baffled by LOTS site and catalog. I found putting in the scale length in "metric mensure" helped. But be careful of their listings—look for the register/string pitch... I had to confirm with them 3 times (due to short one word email answers) before I was confident that the set I was buying was correct.

Yeah im not sure if the guitar-scale options exist. I was just surprised at the guitar orch varieties in general. (I would have thought it a nature extension of the product line.)

And yes , im alittle concerned about that great pricing, I have a feeling like all great products they will bump it with inflation real quick.

I have another Galli string thread here, again (long scale). Those miniset Pyramid (chrome/nylon) sets seems like the same string.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

maybe completely wrong here, but these TI sets are guitar scale (?) and go down to low E
Thomastik 329 Vienna sound Kontragitarre bass Bass Classical Schrammel

Im outta my depth, trying to decipher the German on the TI page LOL (maybe its a lead?)

 

[Karl Kaminski]

My gut feeling is, they'd probably be immediately amenable to a custom order of the four in a longer length: the low B, they may or may not be as willing to make. Who knows.

Thanks @HaphAsSard I love that custom order button on the Pyramid site! I put in a request -I'll see what happens.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

maybe completely wrong here, but these TI sets are guitar scale (?) and go down to low E
Thomastik 329 Vienna sound Kontragitarre bass Bass Classical Schrammel

Im outta my depth, trying to decipher the German on the TI page LOL (maybe its a lead?)

Schrammel's are harp guitars, with floating bass strings.

I believe that the fretted side is usually normal 6-string guitar tuning.

Vienna style Contra Guitar ~1900 Schrammel guitar - Vintage Guitar World

 

[Lance Bunyon]

So this ended up on my Google feed today. Needs more research but I'm curious to know if this device is going to be heard when plugged in. This could be perfect for my duo gigs with my guitarist front man bandleader.
I'd place it where I could thumb slap it on my boulder creek ABG...

 

[HaphAsSard]

maybe completely wrong here, but these TI sets are guitar scale (?) and go down to low E
Thomastik 329 Vienna sound Kontragitarre bass Bass Classical Schrammel

Im outta my depth, trying to decipher the German on the TI page LOL (maybe its a lead?)

Schrammel's are harp guitars, with floating bass strings.

I believe that the fretted side is usually normal 6-string guitar tuning.

Vienna style Contra Guitar ~1900 Schrammel guitar - Vintage Guitar World

As with any harp guitar, and most extended-range nylon string guitars (even including those where fretting low strings is possible) in general, bass strings below E2 are tuned each to one step of a section of a diatonic or chromatic scale, arranged scalarly.
Also, the individual nuts just ahead of the tuning posts of the Schrammelgitarre form a multiscale arrangement, with the lowest string having a vibrating length similar to bass guitar scale (judging from pics and videos, the lowest in the 9+6 string version looks to be around 34" or more from the bridge).

The above means that
- the added range isn't all that extended (the lowest note of the 9-bass Kontragitarre is a G1)
- diameters are probably very close together (the "string fan" takes care of compensating for it).
In fact, the Thomastik-Infeld 329 set only has four different gauges: two identically-gauged strings for Eb and D; three for C#, C and B; two for Bb and A; and two for G# and G.
Vienna Sound Schrammel Guitar | Folk Strings | Products | Thomastik-Infeld Vienna

One thing we don't know is actual gauges. Being freed from the task of having them sound good at mid-neck, the designers can focus toward open-string tone and response to thumb plucking. Is tension equal across the set, and to the 6-string "prime" set? No idea, and it mayn't necessarily be so.

In short, the lowest string of the set can be tuned to G1, as intended, on an ABG, and probably down to E1 with no ill effects in term of tone nor tuning stability (the corresponding reduction in tension being acceptable or not depending on the player).
However, it is my understanding the next gauge up will be too close in gauge for it to be tuned a fourth apart: they'd end up being noticeably different in tension. One could skip that and use the next up, and both it and the lowest would have one or two spares in the packet (as explained above), but 1), it still seems a waste to only use up to five out of nine strings, and 2) you'd still need to source two "treble" strings to complete a bass-guitar set.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Thanks @HaphAsSard I love that custom order button on the Pyramid site! I put in a request -I'll see what happens.

The Word from Pyramid—an unwavering "No" on long-scale version/custom order of those MiniSet flats on Nylon.

They're only offering the 600mm guitar scale sets.

 

[Maxra]

Somebody stop me if I've asked y'all this before - but what would be a regular middle of the road action and neck relief measurement be (1st and 4th at the 12th fret) for a 23"-25" ABG like a Guild Jumbo Jnr or Taylor GS with the OE PB wound nylon strand core strings? I'm just figuring whether my recently acquired used Guild needs adjustment or not, and I've no previous experience with these strings.

 

[HaphAsSard]

The Word from Pyramid—an unwavering "No" on long-scale version/custom order of those MiniSet flats on Nylon.

They're only offering the 600mm guitar scale sets.

Ugh! So much for gut feelings... I feel like I've jinxed it!

I see that Dragão has three different tensions for their standard 4-string bass set.

Lord of the Strings

Somehow I'd missed this. Be warned that the D037 set (gauges .032w .048w .070w .093w)
Dragão D037 Violã Baixo Acoustic bass Bass Classical 4 string
is made up of "nylon"-core, silver-plated bass strings ("bordões prateados"), but is meant for fifths tuning - from G1 to E3, i.e. violin tuning ("afinação violino") only two octaves below.
This, as I've explained here,
Acoustic bass fetish club Part 2
is a local standard of sorts, possibly since close to 1-1/2 centuries ago.

The D036 (.041w .057w .081w .098w)
Dragão D036 Violã Baixo Acoustic bass Bass Acoustic 4 string
is for fourths, E1 to G2 (octave) "guitar tuning" ("afinação violão") and silver-plated, but doesn't mention "nylon", which means it could be steel-core.

The D038 set (.048w .065w .093w .110w)
Dragão D038 Violã Baixo Acoustic bass Hard tension Bass Classical
is also EADG (that LotS again mentions "violin" is a mistake of theirs) and definitely nylon-core, but the winding appears to be "bronze". An extra-heavy Acousticore set, then?

On the AGI/NOVAGI/Dragão website,
http://www.novagi.pt/en/cordas-para-instrumentos-musicais
there is also a mysteriously light (.022w .044w .060w .070w) D034 set,
http://www.novagi.pt/files/portalready/v000/produtos/cordas/zoom/Ref034.jpg
silver-plated but with no mention of core material.

Bottom line, they make things their way, for sure.

 

[Karl Kaminski]

Yeah LOTS-'dot'-com has alot of description errors/omissions.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Yeah LOTS-'dot'-com has alot of description errors/omissions.

Things aren't helped by Dragão's product line, to begin with, was my point.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

...Somehow I'd missed this. Be warned that the D037 set (gauges .032w .048w .070w .093w)
Dragão D037 Violã Baixo Acoustic bass Bass Classical 4 string
is made up of "nylon"-core, silver-plated bass strings ("bordões prateados"), but is meant for fifths tuning - from G1 to E3, i.e. violin tuning ("afinação violino") only two octaves below.

That's actually a pretty awesome catch.

I'm pretty sure there was someone on this thread recently asking about fifths tuning at this scale...

 

[JohnMalay]

Gig report with my Guild Junior Jumbo: took it to an open mic to play with a new group that was looking to get some stage time under their belt. They are acoustic rock, so it was either the Guild or the Ibanez PNB14E. I had promised the organizer that if someone else needed a bass player and I knew the material, I would back them up as well.

Of course, it happened. Fortunately those new guys were actually good players but their set was "hard country": some Petty, some CCR, some early Emmylou. The Guild kept up them just fine and I was amazed at how the bass cut through. Since I usually EQ it to sound as much like a stand-up bass as possible I never realized how that little sucker could rock out!

I may never play other scales again. Now I wish those D'Addario strings will inspire some other manufacturers.

 

[JohnMalay]

Yes, it can actually rock. (The bass. The player is rapidly reaching his expiration date.)

 

[SBassman]

I may never play other scales again. Now I wish those D'Addario strings will inspire some other manufacturers.

Something special is coming. Mimmo at Aquila is bringing to market flatwound spirals - a very unique design with a soft copper wrap and bioplastic core. There is already detailed reviews of them - for regular scale acoustic basses - in another thread here.

I am evaluating them for guitar scale basses, and I will be posting information here. There will be a set targeted specifically for 23" - 25" scale GSBs.

Flat Spirals bass strings | Aquila Corde Armoniche

 

[tymbrewolf]

Man, where is my test set?