Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Guitarist plays too loud
- Thread starter Twobass
- Start date
Been there, done that, and unfortunately you'll have a better chance of winning the lottery than to have him lower the volume, so if the rest of the band feels the same way, out he goes. If not, get out sooner than later.
This type of guitarist is a widespread disease. They are in love with their gear and obsessed with their tone to a point where they don't care much about anything else. It's all about their ego trip.
The bottom line is, if the singer can't be heard it's pointless. An audience doesn't go to hear the nuances of guitar tone, they go for the songs. So, if you can't hear the main melody of the song (singer), what's the point?
That's the one major difference between bass players and guitarists. We tend to see the big picture and work towards it more often than not. Guitarists, "not so much . . ."
This type of guitarist is a widespread disease. They are in love with their gear and obsessed with their tone to a point where they don't care much about anything else. It's all about their ego trip.
The bottom line is, if the singer can't be heard it's pointless. An audience doesn't go to hear the nuances of guitar tone, they go for the songs. So, if you can't hear the main melody of the song (singer), what's the point?
That's the one major difference between bass players and guitarists. We tend to see the big picture and work towards it more often than not. Guitarists, "not so much . . ."
I've been playing for many years, and there's a nugget buried in this thread that you set the volume of everyone to the level that the vocals/PA combination will handle. A friend is coming in this weekend and we'll be playing with friends who love to crank it up. This gives me an opening....
My last band was consistent in using manageable stage volume. You get spoiled, after a while.
My last band was consistent in using manageable stage volume. You get spoiled, after a while.
In big band rehearsals we have a problem with most of the band failing to read the dynamics. If we are at mf and it drops to mp I have to drop to pp to give the drummer a fright and after 4 bars the whole band is at mp. The second run it takes them 2 bars to catch on, and then they get it, until next rehearsal. 
Reading an old interview in a magazine that comprised all of Frank Zappas interviews in boht Guitar Player and Keyboard player, and the entire issue was dedicated, to and of him. There was side interviews with his cohorts and bandmates and sound engineers.
Late into his career, he asked his studio engineer for advice for a FOH engineer for the upcoming tour. He knew a guy from - lo and behold - the WINDHAM HILL (!) record company, that's usually did new age and acoustic stuff. Enough, when Frank Zappa met him he later told his studio engineer "A man with that coat just MUST know something!", bantering about some unfashionable wear he wore while teaming up. I have forgotten his name unfortunately.
Later on when soundchecking, that skilled FOH guy told Frank to turn down all his amps onstage, through backfold mikes, and then Franks manager went up to him and said "hey, this is HIS show...it's Frank Zappas gig!!!" and got hushed by others as well.
While the FOH man, stood his ground, and said "well then everything is going to sound very bad tonight". He asked Frank instead to say to him to turn up the monitors if more volume was needed. Needless to say, after soundcheck Frank went down and took a long talk with him and asked "Are you sure everything is plugged in right?" or something similar. It had to do with reverbs and all sorts of effects. He told Frank, that if they had to run everything as on the record, all sound would be cluttered, and had to explain it to Frank. "reverb's already here in the hall.." and so on.
Ok, the night went on, and a live mic recording was heard afterwards, and Frank said that that was the best unedited live sound he'd ever heard. Even Frank Zappa, the behemoth besserwisser of rock, found himself wrong, eventually.
Even stars like Frank Zappa could have their egos still intact up way into their career. Frank was one who was quite picky about sound anyway, considering that advanced and dense music that 8 piece band could put out, not your average punk smack addict. He said in that interview, further on, he learned from that experience. Just because one big cause: NO ONE DARED TO TELL HIM! No one ever told him! The big difference between Frank and - maybe - the rest of all guitarists, was that he followed his soundmans advice, without really complaining. he really turned it down. It was the rest of his entourage that objected. The "yey" sayers.
He finally got a FOH engineer who had the guts to tell him to turn it down. Try that with Ted Nugent, Lemmy, or Yngwie Malmsteen.
Late into his career, he asked his studio engineer for advice for a FOH engineer for the upcoming tour. He knew a guy from - lo and behold - the WINDHAM HILL (!) record company, that's usually did new age and acoustic stuff. Enough, when Frank Zappa met him he later told his studio engineer "A man with that coat just MUST know something!", bantering about some unfashionable wear he wore while teaming up. I have forgotten his name unfortunately.
Later on when soundchecking, that skilled FOH guy told Frank to turn down all his amps onstage, through backfold mikes, and then Franks manager went up to him and said "hey, this is HIS show...it's Frank Zappas gig!!!" and got hushed by others as well.
While the FOH man, stood his ground, and said "well then everything is going to sound very bad tonight". He asked Frank instead to say to him to turn up the monitors if more volume was needed. Needless to say, after soundcheck Frank went down and took a long talk with him and asked "Are you sure everything is plugged in right?" or something similar. It had to do with reverbs and all sorts of effects. He told Frank, that if they had to run everything as on the record, all sound would be cluttered, and had to explain it to Frank. "reverb's already here in the hall.." and so on.
Ok, the night went on, and a live mic recording was heard afterwards, and Frank said that that was the best unedited live sound he'd ever heard. Even Frank Zappa, the behemoth besserwisser of rock, found himself wrong, eventually.
Even stars like Frank Zappa could have their egos still intact up way into their career. Frank was one who was quite picky about sound anyway, considering that advanced and dense music that 8 piece band could put out, not your average punk smack addict. He said in that interview, further on, he learned from that experience. Just because one big cause: NO ONE DARED TO TELL HIM! No one ever told him! The big difference between Frank and - maybe - the rest of all guitarists, was that he followed his soundmans advice, without really complaining. he really turned it down. It was the rest of his entourage that objected. The "yey" sayers.
He finally got a FOH engineer who had the guts to tell him to turn it down. Try that with Ted Nugent, Lemmy, or Yngwie Malmsteen.
That's also why bassists tends to be producers of bands records, more than guitarists. Leo Lyons (Ten Years After etc), Roger Glover, etc. We can namedrop all day if you like, and the ratio to guitarists would be something like 8:10. 8 out of 10 bassist produces albums better than any guitarist. There are exceptions to the rules though, but in general. And one thing, since hard rock guitarists (metal) seems to be loudest, Steve Harris writes all material for Iron Maiden. It's HIS band. No one elses. He's the lousiest bassist on the planet, maybe, but he writes, arranges, and produces the lot.
If Mr. Knucklehead cant figure it out, try this one for size.
At your next rehearsal, when he starts getting too loud every one stop playing. Be patient as it may take him a few measures or even a full verse to realize that he's all alone. He'll turn around and ask "What the F***?" Calmly tell him that "Once you feel ready to play WITH the band, we can continue." While this is likely to piss him off, you have already talked to him about this several times.
He is either emotionally ready to become a true musicain or he will remain a "Guitard". The choice is his and his alone. If he decides to become a musician that realizes its about the BAND's sound and not individual spotlights, then he stays employed. If he gets all pouty like a 3 year old, or starts screaming like a jack-hole then you have work to do. You guys need to write up your add for a new guitarist, and he needs to work on his resume.
At your next rehearsal, when he starts getting too loud every one stop playing. Be patient as it may take him a few measures or even a full verse to realize that he's all alone. He'll turn around and ask "What the F***?" Calmly tell him that "Once you feel ready to play WITH the band, we can continue." While this is likely to piss him off, you have already talked to him about this several times.
He is either emotionally ready to become a true musicain or he will remain a "Guitard". The choice is his and his alone. If he decides to become a musician that realizes its about the BAND's sound and not individual spotlights, then he stays employed. If he gets all pouty like a 3 year old, or starts screaming like a jack-hole then you have work to do. You guys need to write up your add for a new guitarist, and he needs to work on his resume.
Loud out of tune guitar players are not good!!! Try pointing the guitar amp straight at their face.
That what's bugs me the most. If it's too loud (anything really, bass too) I can't hear the pitch, and doesn't notice if it gets out of tune. If it's a 8x18 wall of bass cabs one have to stay in front on 2 kilometers away in order to hear any fundamental at all, but then there's the avalanche turning up fast behind you (Yes, I've been playin after-ski gigs too). I thought it was the rumble from my low B-string! 
Dealing with an over loud guitarist or keyboardist stepping on my bass lines or a meter challenged
drummer is simple.
I mention once, sometimes twice the adjustment they need to make. If no changes occur,
I let them know that on closer inspection I realized I have too many irons in the fire and
won't be able to continue with the group.
No argument, debate or pleading. Done.
At my age, I've only got so many years of good bass playing left, I'm not gonna waste it.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
drummer is simple.
I mention once, sometimes twice the adjustment they need to make. If no changes occur,
I let them know that on closer inspection I realized I have too many irons in the fire and
won't be able to continue with the group.
No argument, debate or pleading. Done.
At my age, I've only got so many years of good bass playing left, I'm not gonna waste it.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
+1
The thread title that would really catch attention(but never happen) is "Guitar player not loud enough, and refuses to take solos"...lol
The guitar player may be telling the truth. If you don't play guitar you may not realize this, but there is a gain point on an amp where the amp goes from tinny and muddy to where it starts to break up, which is the sound that you want. As a result, there's a minimum gain amount on some tube guitar amps.
What I've find is it helps to get a midsized amp to get the job done, or if possible one that not only has a gain and volume knob, but also a master volume. The master volume can allow you to increase the gain without going crazy on people.
I also find that an amp stand works wonders to keep the volume down. A lot of guitarists can't hear their amp because it's on the ground and facing forward. Getting the amp off the ground and tilted helps it to act as a monitor. I also think it sounds better.
What I've find is it helps to get a midsized amp to get the job done, or if possible one that not only has a gain and volume knob, but also a master volume. The master volume can allow you to increase the gain without going crazy on people.
I also find that an amp stand works wonders to keep the volume down. A lot of guitarists can't hear their amp because it's on the ground and facing forward. Getting the amp off the ground and tilted helps it to act as a monitor. I also think it sounds better.
Why not just turn, all the way up, the master and gain on the amp and low the volume on the guitar?
Wait, that's too simple and non-guitarists aren't suppose to know this, which gives a guitarist an excuse to continue blasting away.
Because that doesn't have the effect you think it would. Rather than being simply quieter, it makes the tone very dry and very clean. That's actually a favorite trick of a bunch of jazz guys.
As an aside, I have never understood the level of vitriol on these boards toward guitarists. You generally need a guitar player for a band. I've played in bands for 20 years with guitarists and known guitarists in other bands who were all great guys and gals. There are prima donna guitarists, but there are also prima donna singers, drummers, keyboardists and [GASP] even bassists.
FWIW, my current guitarist keeps his volume down and loves to hear my bass. None of us go louder than the drummer.
The last six or so guitarists that I've worked with were the same.
Matter of fact, I haven't had the too-loud-guitarist since high school.
The last six or so guitarists that I've worked with were the same.
Matter of fact, I haven't had the too-loud-guitarist since high school.
"Why not just turn, all the way up, the master and gain on the amp and low the volume on the guitar?"
Did not know that. So it works for bass but not tube guitar amps. I still think there has to be a way to achieve the sound or someone needs to invent it
It's not vitriol for must of us, it's just fun to goof on them. Besides, for every 20 guitarists, there is one bass players, so odds are there are bound to be more goofball guitarists than lame bass players. Lastly, I am sure guitar forums goof on bassists. Undoubtedly, this pix has made the guitar forum rounds
I still think there has to be a way to achieve the sound or someone needs to invent it
I thought there was a way to achieve this...
Guess I can take that off my list of "Things to invent"
I thought there was a way to achieve this...
Guess I can take that off my list of "Things to invent"
This reminds me of what the Who did XD
Guitarist too loud, Bassist gets louder, Guitarist gets louder, Bassist gets even more louder, Guitarist gets louder than that, (skips several decades) Bassist dies in a Vegas Hotel Room with cocaine and a hooker
Guitarist too loud, Bassist gets louder, Guitarist gets louder, Bassist gets even more louder, Guitarist gets louder than that, (skips several decades) Bassist dies in a Vegas Hotel Room with cocaine and a hooker
