I say let him see this thread! When he sees that 100 people all think he is being a typical idiot guitard, maybe, just maybe he will get it.
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Guitarist plays too loud
- Thread starter Twobass
- Start date
It's really hard to convince some of them that a 100w Marshall half-stack is overkill!!!
Just wanted to echo all of these sentiments. I double on both guitar and bass. My guitar amp is a 50-watt Mesa 1x12 combo and it is VERY difficult to play it quietly enough so as not to overpower the rest of the band. I am actually looking to move to something that is more like 25-35 watts in hopes of being able to get that saturation at a more respectable volume while still having enough headroom for my clean tones. 100 watts is insane....fine for arenas, or perhaps even large clubs, but way too much for the average cover band.
If he really wants the saturation, he needs to move to a lower powered guitar amp. Since he only uses 1 sound, it should be really easy to find a lower powered, single channel amp that doesn't cost an arm and a leg these days. If he is micing through the PA, anything more than 50 watts is completely unnecessary, it just needs to be loud enough for the stage mix. Even 50 watts can be overkill.
Gotta have the right gear for the right situation. Unless he is playing the same venues as Slash, he does not need a 100-watt half stack.
Been their done that, it's anoyying as hell for sure...
If he's that loud in a rehersal I would probably walk out.. Literally put my bass down, turn off my amp and go for a smoke.
When asked, my asnwer would be simple "I don't need Tinnitus at 30... Sorry bro, my ears are worth more to me than your tone". When the arguement starts, i would just star daggers at him, and reiterate.. Were "rehearsing" not recording, not playing a show.. Their is no need in this day and age for me to leave a practice ears rigning just because you "HAVE" to have your tone..
Or, make him sing.. it worked for me, I couldn't hear myself think weither alone sing over that crap.. Thats not music, it's bloody noise.
If he's that loud in a rehersal I would probably walk out.. Literally put my bass down, turn off my amp and go for a smoke.
When asked, my asnwer would be simple "I don't need Tinnitus at 30... Sorry bro, my ears are worth more to me than your tone". When the arguement starts, i would just star daggers at him, and reiterate.. Were "rehearsing" not recording, not playing a show.. Their is no need in this day and age for me to leave a practice ears rigning just because you "HAVE" to have your tone..
Or, make him sing.. it worked for me, I couldn't hear myself think weither alone sing over that crap.. Thats not music, it's bloody noise.
The other thing he'll come back at you with the attenuator is "I don't get no cone breakup with no stinkin' attenuator"
I've never heard cone breakup in my life. All I hear is screaming.
Marshall make a pretty raunchy 5W valve combo btw.
If he won't do what the band asks him to do, start auditioning new guitarists. One thing that we all know: There is no shortage of decent guitarists out there.
I really don't think this has anything to do with tone. I think a lot of guitarists do this because they get used to playing based on patterns instead of actually knowing what notes they are playing/intend to play and why. They want to be loud to be able to immediately hear and correct/attempt to correct any mistakes they make. As everyone here has already said, there are plenty of solutions for tone, but no solutions for lack of musical knowledge. "Ok, we're in D major... that means if I play the 10th fret on the G string I'll still be in key. No, wait, maybe it was the 10th on the B string..."
This may not be the case with your guy, but just remember, Beethoven was deaf and he didn't have any trouble.
This may not be the case with your guy, but just remember, Beethoven was deaf and he didn't have any trouble.
As long as I've been doing this, (35+ years) the amount of success I've seen dealing with a guitar player, or any player for that matter, with that kind of attitude has been exactly ZERO.
You can write novels and cry a river on the subject but you can't do squat about it.
Like it, lump it, leave it.
IMHO
My guitarist plays through a vintage 25watt Silvertone tone head and a 412 cab and its plenty loud!
We almost always wear earplugs, playing loud is fun.
We almost always wear earplugs, playing loud is fun.
I think the easiest solution is to face the guitardist's cab toward him or toward a wall and away from everyone else. If he still insist on micing the cab to a PA at rehearsal (why???), then make sure the mix is balanced well enough for all to hear.
As others mentioned, a Power Soak or other attenuator is also a good option, but will cost $100 to $300 depending on which one he gets if he doesn't have one already.
He could get another amp with lower wattage, but I doubt he'd want to do that.
Personally, I use an MI Audio Tube Zone pedal (or other dirt pedal) for gain at low volume on both bass and guitar.
As a long time loud guitar player and bass player, I understand this problem. Though, usually bandmates want me to play loud on guitar. And if I'm not on bass, the bass player will likely be using my rig....it's loud enough to compete, trust me.
Higher powered tube amps do not hit their sweet spot until they are quite loud, so I understand the desire to play them loud.
As others mentioned, a Power Soak or other attenuator is also a good option, but will cost $100 to $300 depending on which one he gets if he doesn't have one already.
He could get another amp with lower wattage, but I doubt he'd want to do that.
Personally, I use an MI Audio Tube Zone pedal (or other dirt pedal) for gain at low volume on both bass and guitar.
As a long time loud guitar player and bass player, I understand this problem. Though, usually bandmates want me to play loud on guitar. And if I'm not on bass, the bass player will likely be using my rig....it's loud enough to compete, trust me.
Higher powered tube amps do not hit their sweet spot until they are quite loud, so I understand the desire to play them loud.
The guitarist won't get proper sustaining controlled feedback if the cab is too far away from him or in an isolation cabinet. I assume that that's a key part of his tone with a 100w Marshall.Funny That Way said:
Not all 100w tube amps are capable of this, and I'm not sure which Marshall 100w is being used here. Some guitarists actually do pull 2 power tubes sometimes including me, although it doesn't make a huge difference in overall volume. No re-bias is needed, but it's best to drop the amp's output impedance 50% since the power is also halved. You're right about pedals...Too many pedals and/or crappy pedals sure does suck tone....to many guitardists doing this.treekiller said:
A poor workman blames his tools.
Time for bassists (and other musicians) to lay down the law: If you play an amplified instrument, then equipping yourself to play at appropriate volume levels is a skill of knowing how to play. Having a huge tube amp is no excuse if it's the wrong tool for the job.
Here is the right message to the guitarist:
"You will not advance beyond the beginner level until you learn to deal with your volume. This is just a skill that your teacher can help you learn. You should get a solid state modeling amp so you can sound good at any volume level. If you have destroyed your hearing, then learn to deal with your handicap."
Time for bassists (and other musicians) to lay down the law: If you play an amplified instrument, then equipping yourself to play at appropriate volume levels is a skill of knowing how to play. Having a huge tube amp is no excuse if it's the wrong tool for the job.
Here is the right message to the guitarist:
"You will not advance beyond the beginner level until you learn to deal with your volume. This is just a skill that your teacher can help you learn. You should get a solid state modeling amp so you can sound good at any volume level. If you have destroyed your hearing, then learn to deal with your handicap."
Then he's got the wrong amp.
He's also not that good of a player, if he can't manage to play within an ensemble. Gotta' put the band's overall sound ahead of any one individual.
I like that the wrong tool for the job, I think he has no idea what the right tool is. Oh and he looks down on a solid state amp.
Here is my strategic advice for us bassists: Even if we love tubes for bass, we don't have to go along with the idea that guitar amps need tubes to sound good. I've personally played with guitarists who could get killer tone out of solid state gear, albeit perhaps with an outboard distortion pedal or multi-FX unit.
The message should be:
"Tubes may sound better than solid state, in the right hands, but not in yours, until you learn how to control your volume. Tube mystique is no excuse for playing too loud. There are plenty of guitarists who can make solid state amps sound good."
Have him get something like this for rehearsals:
Buy Peavey Classic 30/112 Tube Combo Amp | Tube Combo Amps | Musician's Friend
They sound great, and they are more than loud enough for rehearsal.
Buy Peavey Classic 30/112 Tube Combo Amp | Tube Combo Amps | Musician's Friend
They sound great, and they are more than loud enough for rehearsal.
This is the only answer that's going to work at rehearsal. 100W half stack is too much amp for most large clubs for a guitar.
Tell the guy if he's micing his amp, he can either put his half stack in another room or another band.
He's screwing up the BAND's tone to get HIS tone. That's not acceptable. People want to hear vocals, not guitar.
Randy
