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Guitarist plays too loud

#81
squarepeg said:
If you can hear a guitarist, he's too loud. :smug:
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:D

Actually there's something to it, really. Way back they just stood at the back comping the drummer and bassist in a big band setting. To keep the 4/4 beat going. Just enough for the drummer and bassist to get heard. Doubt that anyone in the front of the horns got to hearing the guitarist at all. Those were the days... :-)
 
#82
Twobass said:
I thought he had a 100 watt head but it's a 50 watt head, still very loud.
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As I said, a 50w Marshall or even a 30w Vox AC30 CRANKED is way too loud for rehearsal space. Almost any.

-----

Anecdote: The HUGE Jeff Beck played last year in Copenhagen. I stood at the front of the stage. He had just ONE none Master Volume, a 50 W Marshall head and ONE accompanying 4x12 cabinet to go with that. The volume knob was set at 4!!!! Not 4 a clock, but FOUR! Not even halfway turned up! It was large stage, a 1500 seater venue. Of course it was miked up, and run into the PA. Monstrous guitar sound, as always.
 
#85
Or your might suggest this for you guitarist.. TOO :

Invalid Link Removed

There's much food for thought there to read, for your guitarist, especially "standing at the side of the speakers" and so on.
 
#86
I played lead guitar for 12 years. Most of the time I didn't even bring an amp, I went straight into the PA from my pedal board. Worked ok for me, I got all the 'tone' I needed, (it still sounded like an overdriven guitar with a bit of reverb or echo) and saved me lugging a half stack around, job done.

Go to any jam night and see just the guitards that Twobass is talking about, way too loud and play all over the vocals. Last one I went to we were intent on getting a gig there. When we played, we were about half the volume of every one else so you could actually hear what each of us was playing and singing (power trio with 2 of us singing). We were going to ask the owner if there was any chance of a gig but he beat us to it, he came over to our table and offered us a gig, and said to go to the bar for a free drink each.

As has been pointed out the older you get the more protective you get about your hearing and the less you will tolerate such an irresponsible attitude.

The whole point of a rehearsal is to work on songs, not listen to the guitards 'tone'.

If it were me at the rehearsal I would stop the song as soon as it got too loud (sounds like that would be immediately) and refuse to play until everyone was at a sensible level so everyone could hear everyone else. If the guitard can only hear himself then how does he know if it is fitting in properly with what the others are playing and that what they are playing fits. But I am old and crotchety and can get away with that. (44 years experience helps as well)
 
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#87
That quote from there:

"Iʼm always surprised whenever this subject is discussed and most guitar players make the statement “I hate the way my guitar sounds when I stand in front of my speakers”. The answer is not to simply stand off to the side so it only sounds good to you..."

Is exactly why we crave from everybody in our band (a cover band too, rock/pop things) that they raise their amps or cabinets so that they are stand in exactly inline (90 degrees) to at least one of the cones of the speaker in say a 4x12. Our guitarist has a 2x12 though. He both turned it down in volume, and EQ'd it differently. Bass player too, me that is...:smug:

Funny thing, I can hear everyone, just as clear!. Everybody else too. Not only me, or my bass, although I am standing sort of 30-40 inches from it. Or really, my EAR is 30-40 inches from the cone of the speaker in a straight line.
 
#88
delta7fred said:
I played lead guitar for 12 years. Most of the time I didn't even bring an amp, I went straight into the PA from my pedal board. Worked ok for me, I got all the 'tone' I needed, (it still sounded like an overdriven guitar with a bit of reverb or echo) and saved me lugging a half stack around, job done.

Go to any jam night and see just the guitards that Twobass is talking about, way too loud and play all over the vocals. Last one I went to we were intent on getting a gig there. When we played, we were about half the volume of every one else so you could actually hear what each of us was playing and singing (power trio with 2 of us singing). We were going to ask the owner if there was any chance of a gig but he beat us to it, he came over to our table and offered us a gig, and said to go to the bar for a free drink each.

As has been pointed out the older you get the more protective you get about your hearing and the less you will tolerate such an irresponsible attitude.

The whole point of a rehearsal is to work on songs, not listen to the guitards 'tone'.

If it were me at the rehearsal I would stop the song as soon as it got too loud (sounds like that would be immediately) and refuse to play until everyone was at a sensible level so everyone could hear everyone else. If the guitard can only hear himself then how does he know if it is fitting in properly with what the others are playing and that what they are playing fits. But I am old and crotchety and can get away with that. (44 years experience helps as well)
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Sooo right and so true!
 
#89
Be sure to watch the video to the right in the Tone Bra link. They have this four "windows" cloth too, that you can put in front of your 4x12, and just get one speaker to sound, you still have your tone. MUCH FOOD FOR THOUGHT THERE.
 
#91
hyp.spec said:
I find this all too common with guitar players.

My band has been through two of them and they both didn't understand EQ and they both didn't understand setting proper volume. Yes, I play in a metal band and things are going to be loud, but when the damn guitar is so loud you can't even hear the cymbals then there's certainly a problem.

I've told both guitar players and they complain they 'can't hear themselves' if they turn down to anything past '11'. It's a damn shame, but I don't think many people realize then when playing in a band setting, if you can hear yourself super clearly, then there is something definitely wrong with your EQ and Volume.

I'd talk to the guy and if you can't get him to cooperate, start looking elsewhere. My band is at those exact crossroads (other issues aside) at the moment too.
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No exactly simple solution, but one that can work. I suggest in ear monitors. Get a good monitor mixer and all can have their own mix. Then everyone can lose the big amps, keep their hearing, and save thir backs from hauling gear.


You should know the songs well enough that you can play without hearing yourself well. If you cannot, then you need to practice more.
 
#93
I mean, with all due respect, try to gather the rest of the band and start ENTHUSIASTICALLY pep him to these sites, other attenuators (as the one at the video link I gave you) and how other players deals with loud tone at reasoneable levels. Show that you all have positive interest and engagement and are comitted to his sound and gear. At least for a while. Otherwise, it can all turn into a sour, and "Grumpy Old Men" whining instead.

Remind him of the following:

1. You're in a cover band, right?
2. How the f*** are you going to land any gig with his volume?

If you play an original band you'll probably are in a different deal. If you're in a cover band you simply want to play gigs, otherwise I don't get it. But most pubs, small clubs (not to speak about weddings) WONT hire you as explained very clearly earlier in this thread by delta7fred. Keep the volume down and land gigs! Keep the voulme up and you wont have any gig at all. At least, not for a cover band. It's as easy as that.

-------

I did play once with a guitarist who played too low. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, it has happened! And couldn't turn it up even if he was told to. He brought his rack gear, but was a bedroom type and brought his small domestic stereo speakers with him, and his hifi amp. Like, 4 inch, speakers. He was a Lukather freak, and had all these BOSS racks, and had a tremendous sound....in earphones ... !

When turning it up just beyond SPEECH level, it started to squeal and feed back, and the rest of the guys couldn't even play as soft as needed for him to get heard. He refused to alter the patches he had worked YEARS of getting to.

Even if he cranked his stereo with another less distorted and less compressed patch, it was not sufficient. He "played" great though. But that was the largest difference I've seen of a musician that was virtuosic in music, but had absolutely no grip on how to get a good guitar sound. In his bedroom, all sounded ok, playing along with records, but he never ever played with any band. When we got him an amp, and redid his patches to go with the louder volume, he was too shy to let be heard over the drums. Absolutely squashed dynamics and no feeling at all for volume, at the other end of the line.

A very unique specimen ladies and gents.
 
#94
markkoelsch said:
You should know the songs well enough that you can play without hearing yourself well. If you cannot, then you need to practice more.
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Well, I doubt that will work with any acoustic instrument. No matter how the singer learns the lyrics in his sleep, if it's so loud that it overpowers his internal hearing, any singer can't sing in tune if he not get himself heard. A fretted instrument, and drums maybe, and keys, but not a fretless bass, or something acoustic, like vocals. If you do harmony vocals it's even harder, then you really have to hear each other well. Also you have to know when you play or go out of tune.

Don't forget the last thing in any band that's acoustic is the vocal and drums only. I've never ever heard anyone tell a singer "You sing too loud". You only tell the mixing man that "the vocals too loud". And never ever told a drummer to play louder or softer. Different maybe...:smug:
 
#95
Twobass said:
A chart? How would that work? Yes we want him to be not so loud, now I don't mind playing loud but you still have to hear the singer.
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Since no one explained this yet, they put you on. The musicians joke:

- How do you get a guitarist silent?
- Get him a chart!

Sorry I have to spoil this, to the one's who doesn't get the joke. Or have heard it before. Guitarists are known to NOT being sight readers of any notation at all. They just scratch their heads. And if there's a busy guitar player around who keeps on playing between songs, and breaks when someone else is trying to explain something, and wont shut up when told to, just hand him some charts, and then he goes "Huhh?!?..:" and gazing at it, for half an hour...

Since you can play the same note on many places on a guitar, note reading makes it a chore. Steve Vai is one of the few electric guitar players with the most thorough "prima vista" reading (sight reading) around. I e get it the first time he reads it. No matter what is thrown to him. Classical guitarists have different added notation and they must work it through first.
 
#96
All in all, TwoBass return to us , how it turned out in the end. You got ********* of hints, and solutions to this around here, so if nothing works that has been stated around here already, nothing else will. Leave the band.
 
#97
Honch said:
All in all, TwoBass return to us , how it turned out in the end. You got ********* of hints, and solutions to this around here, so if nothing works that has been stated around here already, nothing else will. Leave the band.
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+1

And if you do leave then take the rest of the band with you, well those that feel the same way you do, and start another band. That way you can pick the guitarist.

He may have some good chops but if he is too loud and all over the vocals then he is not a good guitarist, he is a typical guitard* and has a lot to learn before he is a good guitarist.

*I make no apologies for using the word 'guitard', despite protests from other TBers that it is a derogatory term. A guitarist is a player who listens to the rest of the band and the song and has the interests of both at heart, a guitard listens to himself and the whole world revolves around him. I have played with lots of both and been a guitarist in my time so I think I am reasonably qualified to speak on the subject.
 
#99
Twobass said:
One thing that really bothers me is the guitar player and he's very good, he plays way too loud...Also a lot of times he's out of tune because he can't hear himself.

Now I've suggested that we all should turn down to hear the vocals and the guitar player has his standard reply ready "I have to play with high gain".
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If he consistently a) plays way too loud, b) plays out of tune, and c) is unable to achieve high gain at a reasonable volume, then he's not nearly as good as you think he is... :rolleyes:

MM
 
#100
A lot of it has to do with the skill of the guitarist and courtesy along with common sense too. I play in a band with two guitarists, one of which is my brother, he uses a 100 watt Mesa Lonestar 212 combo, the other a 100 watt Marshall TSL half stack. There is no problem with either one of them being too loud. We always set our volumes to compliment each other and there is never any problem asking any band member to turn down (or up) a little bit. Are we loud? Of course it's rock-n-roll, but it's never a volume war. You gotta work together, otherwise it's not working!
 

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