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Guitarist plays too loud

#121
I'm a guitarist/singer in my main band (my "bass bands" are dissolved two years ago and i still haven't found replacement for them :crying:) and this thread suprprised me somewhat:

* Cranking tube amp to get overdriven sound? Is he still in the 60's? There are so many overdrive pedals/preamps, including the tube ones.

* Playing everything on the same sound (and i should mention: too loud, overdriven sound)? Weird.
For example, i have 2-channel Vox overdrive, so i have three sounds (clean, overdrive 1, which can go from 'almost clean' to steady overdrive just by changing pick attack, overdrive 2, higher volume/gain, i use it only for solos) and can't imagine having any less. Especially in cover band. Imagine cover band with guitarist playing everything with just one sound - rhytm, clean, leads... :rollno:

* Miking the amp on rehearsal when you can already hear it and it's already too loud? But WHY? :help:

* Not giving a **** how the band sounds? Super lame.
What's the point of getting that "sweet sound" if you can't hear anything except guitar? "Sweet sound" should benefit the band, not overpower it, otherwise it loses ANY sense.

And the last thing: maybe i'm lucky but i've never played with anyone who refused to turn down when asked (though i played with guitarist who frequently was too loud, i needed just three words: "turn down, man").
That is completely arrogant and immature behaviour. It says: "I just don't care of your hearing and singer's voice, I will traumatize you because your health is less worthy than MY sound". :scowl:
 
#123
that guitar player obviously wants to stand out form the lead instrument (singer). you have to explain to him he is part of the rhythm section and only the singer is suppose to be upfront. when one instrument stands out in a rhythm section it sounds like crap and pisses off the rest of the band
 
#124
Twobass said:
I'm in a cover band that plays your standard cover music, some 80's rock 90's till now. One thing that really bothers me is the guitar player and he's very good, he plays way too loud. So loud that it's really hard to hear the singer, I feel bad for the singer because every time he sings it must be difficult to try to sing over the guitar player. Also a lot of times he's out of tune because he can't hear himself.

Now I've suggested that we all should turn down to hear the vocals and the guitar player has his standard reply ready "I have to play with high gain". Now I don't know why the guitar player doesn't want to turn down and we have all mentioned this to him. So what would be a good way to get him to turn down?
Click to expand...

Ok....he can't be that GOOD if he can't hear himself out of tune or the singer..not trying to be harsh but music is 95% listening..5% creativity...even if he was playing HEAVY METAL...the focus of the band/group come 1st. Talk with him..if he has issue. Tell him to keep stepping..there are just waaaaaaay too many musicians in the world to think you can't be replaced.
 
#125
Schizo Sapiens said:
And last thing: maybe i'm lucky but i've never played with anyone who refused to turn down when asked...
That is completely arrogant and immature behaviour. It says: "I just don't care of your hearing and singer's voice, I will traumatize you because your health is less worthy than MY sound". :scowl:
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I meant. Unfortunately I have played with lots of people who wont turn it down, no matter what. In an un-metal setting. Especially live, when audience and club owner said that, and FOH mixer guys. And when told to to turn it down myself I'd done that, without questioning any authority.

And if anyone doesn't turn it down, in "my" band, or any band I am playing in, when told to... make no mistake...:ninja:
 
#126
The other day at practice me the singer and drummer pretty much told the guitar player to turn down and I just think he likes doing things one way (his way). I think it's a losing battle to try and get him to turn down.
 
#128
Twobass said:
I'm in a cover band that plays your standard cover music, some 80's rock 90's till now. One thing that really bothers me is the guitar player and he's very good, he plays way too loud. So loud that it's really hard to hear the singer, I feel bad for the singer because every time he sings it must be difficult to try to sing over the guitar player. Also a lot of times he's out of tune because he can't hear himself.

Now I've suggested that we all should turn down to hear the vocals and the guitar player has his standard reply ready "I have to play with high gain". Now I don't know why the guitar player doesn't want to turn down and we have all mentioned this to him. So what would be a good way to get him to turn down?
Click to expand...

I especially love it if he's playing thru a Fender Twin Reverb (open in back) and I get stuck behind him somehow. Like needles through the frontal lobe.
 
#129
I've played with guys like this before and will never do it again. We had a guitarist that would play through a 4x12, the mains, and both monitors. Even in small venues where we didn't mike the bass or drums. Claimed he 'couldnt hear himself' otherwise. We stacked his cab on a dummy cab then he complained that it 'blew his head off'. Well, yeah ... now you know how we feel.

Tell him to buy some in-ear monitors, turn down, or quit.
 
#130
Twobass said:
I'm in a cover band that plays your standard cover music, some 80's rock 90's till now. One thing that really bothers me is the guitar player and he's very good, he plays way too loud. So loud that it's really hard to hear the singer, I feel bad for the singer because every time he sings it must be difficult to try to sing over the guitar player. Also a lot of times he's out of tune because he can't hear himself.

Now I've suggested that we all should turn down to hear the vocals and the guitar player has his standard reply ready "I have to play with high gain". Now I don't know why the guitar player doesn't want to turn down and we have all mentioned this to him. So what would be a good way to get him to turn down?
Click to expand...

It's all about the guitard player. Dump him or better yet unplug your bass, singer stops singing, the drummer stops playing and stare at the guitard until he gets it. Do this every time and see him squirm or better yet, head for the door.
 
#131
Vakmere said:
It's all about the guitard player. Dump him or better yet unplug your bass, singer stops singing, the drummer stops playing and stare at the guitard until he gets it. Do this every time and see him squirm or better yet, head for the door.
Click to expand...
+1
Unplug and leave if he's that loud. Every single time..If he ask's why, I'd simply say "if you can't hear me, why does it matter?"

Guy's like that have ego issue's, if he was a drummer, he'd have to smash everything as we'll.. He need's to be the center of attention, so give it to him, but make sure he feels like an idiot afterward.
 
#132
I have a question about the tone issue. I understand that the increase in gain gets the amp to the desired distortion level, but don't the amps also have a master volume control so that you can get to that tone and then reduce the volume without effecting the tone?

We practice in a garage that would barely fit one car, and we are always too loud. It really started when our drummer got mics and he wanted to hear them through the PA. Then the guitarist mics his 100 watt Fender amp and runs it through the PA. Now, we are in an 8' x 14' space. When I first saw that, I said "***?", and warned what would happen. Sure enough, I spent a year watching vocalist, guitarist, and drummer constantly walking to the board to turn themselves up, and going home with ringing ears. I could never hear myself. The neighbor finally called the police (hadn't called in 2 years prior to this), and they started taking it seriously, or so I thought.

The trick our guitarist does is he keeps his volume knob turned down on his guitar, so after he turns his fader down on the board, he can boost his volume back up from the guitar. He often does this before the first chorus of the next song is over, so he's right back to being too loud.
 
#135
billjr said:
I have a question about the tone issue. I understand that the increase in gain gets the amp to the desired distortion level, but don't the amps also have a master volume control so that you can get to that tone and then reduce the volume without effecting the tone?

We practice in a garage that would barely fit one car, and we are always too loud. It really started when our drummer got mics and he wanted to hear them through the PA. Then the guitarist mics his 100 watt Fender amp and runs it through the PA. Now, we are in an 8' x 14' space. When I first saw that, I said "***?", and warned what would happen. Sure enough, I spent a year watching vocalist, guitarist, and drummer constantly walking to the board to turn themselves up, and going home with ringing ears. I could never hear myself. The neighbor finally called the police (hadn't called in 2 years prior to this), and they started taking it seriously, or so I thought.

The trick our guitarist does is he keeps his volume knob turned down on his guitar, so after he turns his fader down on the board, he can boost his volume back up from the guitar. He often does this before the first chorus of the next song is over, so he's right back to being too loud.
Click to expand...

You guys really mic the drums and amps at practice?
Smith and Wesson may be your only option remaining! :hmm:

The tube amp tone issue is real, they do need to operate at a certain level to get the best tone, but a smaller amp is all anyone needs with PA support at a gig, or at practice.
That's why they make 30, 15 watt, and even smaller amps.
To get the tone at a reasonable db level.

Practice time is about getting the songs tight, it is not about anyone's tone.
Personally, I wouldn't put up with more than 3 practices like that.
If someone wants to make themselves deaf, fine.
They're not taking me with them.
 
#137
kcole4001 said:
Practice time is about getting the songs tight, it is not about anyone's tone.
Click to expand...

How long does it take people to realise this. If we are working on a particular bit of a song we do the vocals un-miked with the drummer just tapping and the bass and guitar at a level that we can hear the vocals.

The louder it is the less you hear of the song, it all just mushes together, especially if something is not quite right.
 
#138
The drummer does play electronic drums, and at the last practice I just played through my amp. I usually just go through the PA, but I wanted to give the singer a chance to hear himself. Of course at the end of the practice the guitar player says I should be miked and go through the PA and I said it's just practice everyone doesn't have to go through the PA.

So I'm almost done there are other issues as well like learning songs on your own and being able to get them down.
 
#139
I've quit a band because they were too loud. Full PA blasting in a rented rehearsal space. Just ridiculous. When you're standing in front of an amp that can fill any room, 1500W of power, a stack of speakers taller than you are, and you can't hear a note you're playing, everything is a bit too loud. First rehearsal was the last for me.

Once your hearing is shot, you've lost your most important instrument and might as well give up music. Great to emulate Beethoven and all, but he was great in spite of his deafness, not because of it.

Its not a democracy, your hearing is not up for everyone else's vote. They can either turn down or find another bass player. Or fire him if you like the rest of the guys. You can be flexible in song selection. Not this.

Randy
 
#140
All this latest posts are of a concern, and at a point which we haven't discussed, as of yet:

1. Is the turning up, a consequence of different levels of deafness/hearing loss among band members, i e prior to joining the band?

Should "we" go along with that? I e that a person who - actually - has a disability of some sorts, to turn down so he/she can not hear himself, just so we can hear? I think if we taking this issue out into extremes and "crux of the biscuit" it will all end up in who's got the "preferential right of interpretation" of when ANYTHING it's too loud. If it's the man who OWNs the PA, VAN, rehearsal space that have this "interpretation" right of when anything is too loud or too low, well then...just move on. He will carry on advertising for bandmates all round music shops until hell freezes over,, and never will get the ones who stay around for long enough, but one rehearsal.

I've seen evidence in the last posts, about raising the 4x12 stack up onto a dummy cab "blew his head off", that our solution to it - albeit very unwieldy and expensive - solved most problems. ALL SPEAKER CABS inlcuding bass amps, pa monitors, are raised up on stands against a wall at the different members EAR HEIGHT so to speak. We measured how tall they are from the floor. Not how tall the person is, but how many millimeters there's to the ear. And not the ear, but the ear ENTRANCE, i e the hole. And that the middle of the speaker cone should be in a right 90 degree line straight into that. No angled or wedged speakers anywhere. Everybody was able cut their volume by two thirds and no ones complaining that they don't hear anything. And mind you, we didn't tell anyone to do anything, they just did that by themselves, by default, when they heard it.

Conclusion by this method is, frankly, that the first person to be bothered by TOO LOUD volume from his amp, is the person himself. And it's really the way it should be. With all amps.

There's absolutely no risk that people are turning down too much so that others across the room can't hear them. Bass levels are spread evenly too, the bass speaker does not have to be on the floor for bass "coupling".

----

To tell you the truth, I've never ever really understood why speakers, amps, at all, should be made working at floor level, blasting out between our legs, or lower waist. These small PA's system with stands and poles that raises the treble and high end speakers up a bit are made for a reason.

----

Well, I think music journalists should start any interview with all guitarists with the question:

"Have you ever been asked to turn it down...?"

It would be very interesting to see how Eric Johnson, and Ted Nugent, Pete Townsend responded to that question. If they were able to hear the question at all in the first place.:smug:
 

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