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Guitarist plays too loud

#161
Twobass said:
Yea he's winning this one but not for long, because I have no problem quitting.
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That's my point, he doesn't know this. I'm purely speculating here, but it's my guess that he thinks he's indispensible because he provides the rehearsal space. I think that if you (and the rest of the band) make it clear to him that he's not indispensible, then you might find him to be a bit more willing to compromise.

S.P.
 
#162
Arthur Strand said:
This is one particular problem with semi-pro and amateurs. The overall balance should be the main consideration. Now, in rockgroups there are only guitars with the amplification!!!!! Just a generalisation there.The vocals should be clearly audible over the other instruments.
Youngsters forget the original reason for amplifying guitars - it was because the acoustic guitars were drowned out by the other instruments in a band.
If you can afford a mixer, then the P.A. sound can be controlled but if it is a small band with an amp each, then common sense must prevail. If a guitarist is way too loud and out of tune, then the singer should explain the situation. This may be contentious and the guitarist could well get the hump and disappear. There are plenty of others to replace the guy. There is some degree of machismo and an underlying set of psychological reasons for increasing the volume. One is to make an impact on the audience and grab the limelight. More besides, of course.
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This! I am getting soooooo sick of these showboat musicians who insist on being so loud...and has anyone else noticed that generally speaking, the really loud ones are not all that good? Why do they insist on having everyone hear their every mistake, clam, wolf note, sour note, etc.....
 
#163
Downunderwonder said:
Don't just leave, take the band with you. Heaps of guitarists are looking to fill a spot. Everyone buys a piece of PA gear and you're back in business.
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Right on! Since it seems that it is the guitarist who's calling the shots, give him an ultimatum. the rest of the group leaves and find some other place/guitarist to play with. Dragging it out, for so long will only escalate the frustration among the rest of the guys. I say no one - no guitarist - is that nice, good, that you'll have to put up with this.

There's tons of guitarists around who can replace him. And at a decent volume level. If you all leave, as the years go by, you will probably notice, in a roundabout way, why his new band, seems to have a too frequent turnaround of members all of the time, no consistency at all. Go figure. The sad thing is, that he'll never understand why. Ever.
 
#164
Look here: Dragging it out for too long, will cause an eventual split to be acrimonious. An amicable split is preferable, and will stay amicable afterwards for a longer time, if done sooner.

Since, if this talk doesn't work on him, but you decide to stay or put up with it, you'll slowly try to find other things, petty things, that doesn't really add to anything. And then build up a BS kind of reason to go separate ways. I e finding other reasons, than the loudness one. You'll start to - undeliberately - find as many small tiny things, on him, that annoys you. That works to his disadvantage. In the long run, this is bad, and is the same reasons marriages breaks up and so on. Small things, that annoys the rest of the band (the other side) since the reason that what it really was about, has been out of the discussion for so long.


We've discussed this long enough now, and re-iterated a lot of opinions, so this thread is starting to repeat itself over and over again. Since nothing will make this guy to be willing to compromise. So my verdict is:

Leave.

and take the other guys with you, if possible.
 
#167
NOAH_FX said:
Off Topic, but my guitarist used to be too low.. I'd have to go turn him up on most songs, lately he's been deafining loud.. I look at him smile and say "Your finally a real guitarist, single tear, now turn down that damn amp"
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^ i recently got this problem... hahah never thought id see the day my lead guitarist DIDNT want to crank his amp.. lol
 
#169
I struggled along a a while back in a club band for 4 1/2 years, stuck between a loud guitarist with his combo tube amp on a stand slanting in towards me and a hard hitting drummer. I stacked two cabs to get my sound up closer to my ears. It was a struggle to hear myself, especially on small stages. Turning up my volume and mids to hear myself resulted in the guitarist turning his amp up even more and the drummer would hit harder, than the manager would inform us we where too loud and everyone would have to turn down. This happened at many gigs.

I suggested a different stage arrangement many times but the guitarist wouldn't budge from his position. So, after awhile I started moving around more during sets which resulted in a couple minor collisions between the guitar player and myself, hoping Mr. loud would take the hint. Nope, he was an ornery coot and asked me to stand back by my amp and not to move, for that is what bass players are supposed to do. I have been around a long time and have played with quite a few cats in many bands and knew this dude was hard headed and not a fun musician to gig with.

I grew tired of the constant struggle with that band and resigned. Sometime later I learned the next couple of bass players struggled with the same issue and also eventually quit.
 
#170
Ah, perfect place for my little rant…

Guitarist (band leader, but I own the equipment) just called to confirm when we meet for tonight‘s gig, and asked me about the main speaker (Yamaha C115V") that blew a couple weeks ago (I brought another to use until this one is fixed), and I told him it’s gonna cost me $85 + tax. I then mentioned again that we’re too loud (he knows that means he‘s too loud), and he said “Hey, I gotta have a certain volume to get the feel I need”. Last time he used the work “tone”.

This is a 55 year old man, and we’re talking classic rock, country, oldies, not headbanger.

He’s gigging a Tube Fender Twin and a 12” Peavey for stereo, placed behind him tilted back maybe 20 degrees.

He continued, “You’re gonna have to get used to getting speakers reconed, like every few months, I did it for many years. Ask the guy what fuse to buy to put in the line that will help prevent that.”

We’ve been gigging steadily for about a year now, and I’m just now approaching the limit to what I can handle from him. Depending on what rig I brought, I either couldn’t get it loud enough, or had to turn down because I was too loud out front, a no-win situation.

So, I just spent $50 on a little Rolls microphone amp and $200 on Shure in-ear headphones, and I’m going direct to the PA with no head or cab. At least this will cut the sound guy’s challenge in half.

I’m pissed right now, so what I want to tell him is I’m taking home my mains and he can supply them, but that wouldn’t fix the problem of complaints, people sitting far away and dancing mainly with the break music, and/or just leaving.

But, I do know that next time and from now on when he complains or comments (which he does a lot) on a mistake from someone, I’m gonna say “Well, that might be an issue, but it really doesn’t matter since we’re too loud.

I really don’t want shout or make ultimatums, and I feel like I’m just gonna lose on this since he stands his ground very firmly when the subject comes up.

I blew up at him over a different issue once so he’s pretty careful of how he talks to me (lately he makes any negative comments he want me to hear to my drummer buddy so he can sorta relay the message), which makes it difficult for me to get into an argument without starting it myself.

I bought a lot of new stuff for this band, and the others and I are tight, and without all that I provide, they’re pretty much dead in the water, so I just can’t dump the whole thing, which is what I’d probably do otherwise.

/rant
 
#171
Marko5657, this is what I asked in a post way back. That if you're seasoned, jaded, mature, and grown up, like 50 plus (I am too) you're starting ro RAISE volume and use a number of excuses, but what it really boils down to is that you're slowly becoming deaf. And "deafer" and "deafer" for each year. And that THAT is the real cause for turning it up. It's by no means a young or immature thing at all. Or "rock out" thing. Jazz guitards and country, and blues men can have the same... idiosyncrasies. No matter what age, or musical style.

I've actually scrutinized drummers forum, and electric guitar forums since this thread started, just to try to find any thread or posts around there who's bickering about other instruments/instrumentalists that are too loud for guitarists or anyone else. Peculiar thing is, I have yet to find any. Guitarists (Guitards) takes the lions share in this loudness department.
 
#173
Also, this aging thing, age hearing loss, I've seen... that most guitarists turns to TELECASTERS as they go senior - provided that they don't have played them before - cause they're so damm trebly and ice-picky in the high end. The guitarists hears the treble like they used to. Normal high end hearing. But to others it's pure torture.
 
#174
rythman6969 said:
the title could be Guitarists play too loud.
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It actually says "Guitarist plays too loud..." - from the start on - just single one only, out. But I DO NOT THINK ALL guitarists plays too loud. But they are in a majority for sure. And of all people in any band, there's always the guitarist that I've told to turn it down. NEVER said to a vocalist that he need to sing louder, or softer. Or a drummer actually... and definitely not any keyboardist.

I've told a bass player (I know... sacrilege) to turn it down, once, when I've been a FOH mixer. Once, mind you...and I heard the same excuses from him... like ... "when playing the lowest notes you got have volume otherwise you wont hear it.." and so on.

I do think this loudness race within live bands have gone to extremes. I remember very well from an interview with Pink Floyd in the mid seventies - at their peak - when discussing technical things Dave Gilmour said "we don't need to monitor the drums, Nick, plays loud enough acoustically for everyone us to hear". Mind you, they played ARENAS back in the seventies, and the ACOUSTIC SOUND OF THE DRUMS were sufficient enough. Those were the days. And Nick Mason was neither regarded as an especially loud drummer, nor virtuosic. He played/plays sparse and very simple.
 
#176
Honch said:
It actually says "Guitarist plays too loud..." - from the start on - just single one only, out. But I DO NOT THINK ALL guitarists plays too loud. But they are in a majority for sure. And of all people in any band, there's always the guitarist that I've told to turn it down. NEVER said to a vocalist that he need to sing louder, or softer. Or a drummer actually... and definitely not any keyboardist.

I've told a bass player (I know... sacrilege) to turn it down, once, when I've been a FOH mixer. Once, mind you...and I heard the same excuses from him... like ... "when playing the lowest notes you got have volume otherwise you wont hear it.." and so on.

I do think this loudness race within live bands have gone to extremes. I remember very well from an interview with Pink Floyd in the mid seventies - at their peak - when discussing technical things Dave Gilmour said "we don't need to monitor the drums, Nick, plays loud enough acoustically for everyone us to hear". Mind you, they played ARENAS back in the seventies, and the ACOUSTIC SOUND OF THE DRUMS were sufficient enough. Those were the days. And Nick Mason was neither regarded as an especially loud drummer, nor virtuosic. He played/plays sparse and very simple.
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I heard from a tech of theirs in the 70's that Nick could make a drumset sing, that his tone was quite good, of course no virtuoso, but had that 'something' that made an instrument really sing. Also, I saw them on the Animals tour and it was not an exceptionally loud show out front.
 
#177
Honch…
yes, I’m sure you’re right about that. He’s 55, has been on stage since he was 14, and I’m going to try to take that in consideration.

I didn’t mess with him tonight, and as for the $85 for the speaker repair, he handed that to me when passing out the pay- took it off the top, so that’s a good thing at least.

And tonight we played a Moose club, 7:30-11:30, buncha old folks, and we HAD to be quiet, and it was sooo nice, the place was packed, and we held them to the end, so I’m not feeling to badly at the moment.

I used the microphone amp and Shure in-ear head set for the first time, and man, it was sweet.

And haha… he does plays a Tele, but he has been playing it for 30 years.

I brought my SPL meter and gave it to our sound guy who could only get 20/25 feet out, and we were under 100 db, which ain’t bad.
 
#178
Some of you guys want to get with a decent guitarist!

Last night ours asked if I could turn up. He was not too loud, I was probably on the quiet side as one thing I hate is volume wars.

He also said that he was thinking of selling his Fender combo (can't remember the number but it is the loudest single 12 that Fender have made) as he doesn't use it because it is too loud and the volume pot goes from off to bleeding ears in a gnats whisker of a turn. He prefers a single 12 homebuilt cab with a Crate Powerblock (micro head).

He gets 'his tone' from his guitar, his technique and his pedal board. In his opinion the amp and speaker have very little to do with it.
 
#179
I am not buying the age issue thing. Music-caused hearing loss just cuts the high end, like in one of my own ears. However, I gig occasionally with a gentleman who is 103 years old. Yes, you read that right!

He is very deaf, and yet, he still plays his ukelele through a small combo practice sized amp at a medium volume. So, it can be done. You just need to have a totally pro attitude, which means you play to blend in with everyone else...in ALL situations.
 
#180
delta7fred said:
Some of you guys want to get with a decent guitarist!

Last night ours asked if I could turn up. He was not too loud, I was probably on the quiet side as one thing I hate is volume wars.

He also said that he was thinking of selling his Fender combo (can't remember the number but it is the loudest single 12 that Fender have made) as he doesn't use it because it is too loud and the volume pot goes from off to bleeding ears in a gnats whisker of a turn. He prefers a single 12 homebuilt cab with a Crate Powerblock (micro head).

He gets 'his tone' from his guitar, his technique and his pedal board. In his opinion the amp and speaker have very little to do with it.
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Now this sounds like a great guitarist.
 

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