Guitarists Downtuning

[lfmn16]

Maybe it was in the 12 pages of this thread already, but why not just tune your bass a half step down like the guitars? I find having less tension on the strings a gift for longer gigs.

A plus to tuning down: you won’t get random people who want to sit in with their harmonica.

+1

I'll never understand all this angst about tuning down 1/2 step. I had never done it until about 15 years ago. I showed up for an audition and when I got there they said, "We tune down 1/2 step." I tuned down 1/2 step, we never had a single discussion about keys, what we called them, or anything else. We never had a single misunderstanding either. I understood that they looked at the 5th fret on the E string and called it an A regardless of how we were tuned, without any prompting.

This aint rocket science.

 

[eb3mike]

AMEN!

 

[Reedt2000]

Man...had a bass player that was just not "on" for whatever reason to that Sweet Child part.

I swear I played that damn Do do do do Do do do do intro for a half hour one night....

 

[Jeff Hughes]

+1

I'll never understand all this angst about tuning down 1/2 step. I had never done it until about 15 years ago. I showed up for an audition and when I got there they said, "We tune down 1/2 step." I tuned down 1/2 step, we never had a single discussion about keys, what we called them, or anything else. We never had a single misunderstanding either. I understood that they looked at the 5th fret on the E string and called it an A regardless of how we were tuned, without any prompting.

This aint rocket science.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the most correct.

I mean I guess some players keep their action so low to the point that taking a half step off makes the bass unplayable, but just like having different playing skill sets (jazz, rock, blues, etc.), being able to make your hardware do different things is a skill too.

Most players wouldn’t bat an eye at having multiple rigs for different kinds of gigs, so why not a flexible setup on your instrument?

 

[ruju]

I find quite often that when guitarists tune to Eb/ D / drop D it causes a couple of problems.

1st is when trying to teach them a chord progression they treat the fretboard as if they were still in standard tuning, so for example you tell them to play an A and they play 5th fret on the E string then (because they're downtuned a whole step) they look at you funny and say 'you mean B' (7th fret).

The other problem is with regards to key signatures. You play a song which is in the key of G (when played in standard tuning) but the guitarist is downtuned to D and wants to play the same hand positions which obviously makes everything a tone lower. No problem i'll shift my hand a whole step down the neck. You confirm with them that the song is now in F? And again they look at you funny and say, 'no it's in D'.

I'm just curious if anyone has experienced this problem and how people have approached the situation?

Yes, not every player will have the same if any musical theory knowledge. Even my own is limited compared to others I have performed with. This can be can be a challenge when trying to communicate in musical language, but I think if they are willing to learn and you don't speak down to them everyone comes out on top.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Sounds like the OP is playing with people who don't really know about music theory which is fine. In that case, I'd tell them to play the notes that they want to hear (i.e. if it's drop D tuning and I wanted them to play a D, I'd tell them to play an E instead).

 

[Downunderwonder]

A plus to tuning down: you won’t get random people who want to sit in with their harmonica

wanna bet? At least you can tell them a heart felt sorry instead of a flat duck off.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

wanna bet? At least you can tell them a heart felt sorry instead of a flat duck off.

Perhaps I should have said “it will be harder for someone to sit in with his or her harmonica” but not impossible. One St Paddy's day, a bagpiper wanted to play ‘Shipping up to Boston’ with us, so we told her we were tuned down a half step. She said it was no problem. It was a problem. It all sounded very raga with her playing in std and us down a half step.

 

[Aceman]

Guitarists are often self taught and don't really understand what they're doing. Luckily not my guitarist.

Unlike bassists?

 

[RandalPinkFloyd]

Maybe it was in the 12 pages of this thread already, but why not just tune your bass a half step down like the guitars? I find having less tension on the strings a gift for longer gigs.

A plus to tuning down: you won’t get random people who want to sit in with their harmonica.

For some reason, a lot of the guys on here find that tuning down is the same as being asked to donate both kidneys and their first born child. I've never understood the hemming and hawing over tuning down. 90% of the cats on here have 3 dozen basses, but can't be bothered to change just one of them out of EADG. It's as if it involves complicated mathematical computations and an assortment of tools that can only be stolen from a NASA facility.

Probably the same cats that think a Fender P bass with Flats is the answer to everything from playing doom metal to what to put on the large pizza they just ordered. Just guessing based on the repeative predictable answers I see to questions on here, specifically top 40 guys trying to chime in on metal music inquiries. In a way, I'm kind of glad that so many bass players are stubborn traditionalist who refuse to be anything but 1 dimensional. It keeps me busy and always in high demand despite not being great. You guys keep being martyrs for not tuning down, and I'll keep taking those jobs. \m/

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

A blues band I was in almost 10 years ago, decided to tune to Eb. I played a fiver, but downtuned every rehearsal and gig. We called it E and A, but it was Eb and Ab. No biggie.

Last night I went and tried out for a more metal-oriented band. Tunings in drop D, C standard, E standard, drop C and so on. I played everything on my fiver, tuned in B standard. It went south for one tune, where I had learned my part incorrectly and the guitarist assumed my B was a Bb (no idea why). He couldn't name the notes, so he named the frets and I had to ignore the "no, two frets down" comments.

If this project takes off, I may get a new bass and tune it to C standard, as it would cover the necessary ranges and would be an interesting new learning curve. But until then, the fiver in B it is.

 

[Aceman]

Transposing is a very handy and cool skill. But at the end of the day, is it really necessary in a band where you know the song and know the key?

Unless you have to deal with singers on the fly....whatever. I have to say - I don 't know anyone who does.

 

[thabassmon]

I use whatever language I need to use to get the message across, when communicating with a guitarist who downtunes, I'll try and communicate the actual pitch, if that doesn't work (you'll know almost instantly) I'll communicate the pitches in reference to their perspective, same with sax players and trumpet players, though horn players seem to have a better grasp on the relationship between their transposition and concert. The only time that I've had a challenge with it is when the guitarist (and IME if it's anyone it's the guitarist) really hasn't got a clue, the type that articulate notes via fret number, "that riff is 0 1 2 0 1 2 2"
When I used to run a covers band I'd transcribe the tunes, make an arrangement and write out the parts to be played for the individual, bass clef for me, transposed treble clef for the tenor sax, and six string tablature for the guitar player, the drummer and singer didn't want charts they just learnt the tunes and remembered any alterations.

 

[SAM RONEY]

But please utilize your return key to create paragraphs of ideas. Giant walls of text don't get properly read.

OMG Really? You're giving me typing instructions? If you find it difficult to "properly read" my comment because I don't hit return often enough to suit you, then for God's sake, don't bother reading it. I don't need typing advice from you, sport.

 

[Mushroo]

Perhaps I should have said “it will be harder for someone to sit in with his or her harmonica” but not impossible. One St Paddy's day, a bagpiper wanted to play ‘Shipping up to Boston’ with us, so we told her we were tuned down a half step. She said it was no problem. It was a problem. It all sounded very raga with her playing in std and us down a half step.

In my opinion, that one was on you. Bagpipes can only play in one key and whatever that key happens to be, the rest of the band has an obligation to accommodate it. I have zero sympathy for musicians who intentionally subject the audience to an out-of-key performance out of stubbornness or to prove a point. You knew it was going to be a trainwreck but let it happen anyway. Disrespectful to the audience in my opinion.

Probably the reason she said "no problem" is because she incorrectly assumed your band members have a basic Music 101 skill that you guys apparently don't have, which is to play songs rooted on fretted notes instead of open strings. She was expecting you to play the song transposed to the 1st fret (or use a capo) but y'all blew the musical opportunity.

The person sitting in is your Very Special Guest Star for those 5 minutes, and you should change the key to accommodate the range of their instrument or voice. Next time a bagpiper asks to sit in with you, the correct answer is, "Sure! Let's hear your drone so we can all tune to you."

 

[DWBass]

Yeah. Down tuning but not knowing music or theory. Had a guy once who wanted me to play and asked me to down tune. I told him I play a 5 string and don't need to. He insisted I down tune. I told him to find another bass player.

 

[micguy]

I don't have a particular issue with guitarists downtuning, so long as I understand where they are tuned. I used to play a bass tuned in D standard for some gigs, but found it easier mentally to use a 5 string, as I know where the notes are easier.

If the guitarists start downtuning a lot - like down to C or something, I reserve the right to show up with a piccolo tuned 6 string bass - EADGCF

 

[lfmn16]

OMG Really? You're giving me typing instructions? If you find it difficult to "properly read" my comment because I don't hit return often enough to suit you, then for God's sake, don't bother reading it. I don't need typing advice from you, sport.

Just an observation for new guy. @Downunderwonder has been here 11 years. He's trying to be helpful.

Being snarky to the long timers is not a great way to ingratiate yourself into an online community.

 

[David Jayne]

I don't mind downtuning. It happens for certain gigs. What I DO hate, as the OP brought up is when the Eb or D tuned guitarist insists on calling chords or even individual notes by their positions rather than actual pitch. This has led to more than one 'start/stop' on gigs where this was unclear. Yes I'll tune the same as you but don't pee on me and tell me it's raining.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

In my opinion, that one was on you. Bagpipes can only play in one key and whatever that key happens to be, the rest of the band has an obligation to accommodate it. I have zero sympathy for musicians who intentionally subject the audience to an out-of-key performance out of stubbornness or to prove a point. You knew it was going to be a trainwreck but let it happen anyway. Disrespectful to the audience in my opinion.

Probably the reason she said "no problem" is because she incorrectly assumed your band members have a basic Music 101 skill that you guys apparently don't have, which is to play songs rooted on fretted notes instead of open strings. She was expecting you to play the song transposed to the 1st fret (or use a capo) but y'all blew the musical opportunity.

The person sitting in is your Very Special Guest Star for those 5 minutes, and you should change the key to accommodate the range of their instrument or voice. Next time a bagpiper asks to sit in with you, the correct answer is, "Sure! Let's hear your drone so we can all tune to you."

Now that I think back, it was actually The Proclaimers “I’m Gonna Be.” Wrong song. Oh well, I think that was hour ten of our St. Patrick’s Day gig that year, and there was a lot of alcohol-induced silliness.

I think the piper had been doing the rounds playing at bars for money and then ended up walking in wearing the full regalia bagpipe in tow with no intention of playing except for the non-musician bar owner who suggested she play with us. In all honesty, she could barely play in rhythm given her state of inebriation, but everyone loved it out of tune and all. The floor was shaking, and the voices of the disrespected audience drowned out all offense.

Music 101. That is funny. Nothing was blown except the bagpipes. Special guest star is an overstatement.

All keys are relative just like time.