Guns for wife and I

[aborgman]

I'd like to buy a couple of handguns for my wife and I. Neither one of us has ever owned a handgun before so know nothing about them. I'm 61 yrs old and my wife will be 60.

We want to learn how to properly shoot at shooting ranges. Do they teach newbies lessions? What are the qualifications of having a permit?

Can you give me some models of handguns that my wife and I would be comfortable using? Why you would recommend that pistol?

Take the classes, shoot a lot of different guns, figure out what your main use will be...

THEN worry about what gun to buy.

 

[aborgman]

Second, I would absolutely not suggest locks for your guns in your home if you're going to keep them there for home defense. With proper gun handling, negligent discharges are a minuscule risk, and if you're going to be relying on that firearm to save your life late at night, the last thing you want to do is fumble with a lock.

While accidental discharges are a miniscule risk - they're a couple orders of magnitude more likely than getting killed (or even injured) in a home invasion.

 

[sloasdaylight]

Three general tips:

Find out what ammunition your local law enforcement uses and use that in any gun that might be used in self defence.

Don't modify in any way a gun that might be used in self defence.

See if there's an IPSC club in your area and give that a try.

dave

I'd look more into IDPA than IPSC for home defense purposes.

 

[aborgman]

How do you keep a gun secure (out of the way and not easily gotten to by children) but available if necessary?

You can't.

 

[sloasdaylight]

While accidental discharges are a miniscule risk - they're a couple orders of magnitude more likely than getting killed (or even injured) in a home invasion.

Yea, agreed, but if the purpose of your owning a firearm is for home defense, it is, in my opinion, asinine to keep it locked and out of easy reach.

 

[aborgman]

Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense whatsoever, at any angle I look at it from. The more stopping power a cartridge has, the better it is for home defense. Period.

That just isn't true.

Just like .300 Winchester Mag isn't necessarily better for shooting deer than a .270.

Once you get past the point of "enough" bullet energy, other things matter.

...and the main thing that matters is anything that effects accuracy.

The more stopping power a cartridge has, the more recoil it has. The more recoil a cartridge has, the more likely a person is going to have problems shooting it accurately (flinching, etc.).

I prefer the guy shooting a .270 who can put it in a 1" circle at 200 yards over the guy with the .300 Mag that thinks he has enough "knockdown" power to make up for the fact that he can barely hit a paper plate at 100 yards.

The first guy will bring home a lot more venison too.

 

[aborgman]

Yea, agreed, but if the purpose of your owning a firearm is for home defense, it is, in my opinion, asinine to keep it locked and out of easy reach.

Yeah well... as someone who has shot since he was about 7 years old, hunts regularly, has owned dozens of guns, etc... I'd say -

If the purpose of your owning a firearm is for home defense, it is, in my opinion, asinine. Or at least statistically ignorant.

 

[sloasdaylight]

That just isn't true.

Just like .300 Winchester Mag isn't necessarily better for shooting deer than a .270.

Once you get past the point of "enough" bullet energy, other things matter.

...and the main thing that matters is anything that effects accuracy.

The more stopping power a cartridge has, the more recoil it has. The more recoil a cartridge has, the more likely a person is going to have problems shooting it accurately (flinching, etc.).

I prefer the guy shooting a .270 who can put it in a 1" circle at 200 yards over the guy with the .300 Mag that thinks he has enough "knockdown" power to make up for the fact that he can barely hit a paper plate at 100 yards.

The first guy will bring home a lot more venison too.

Read my response to Burk's response to my initial post, that should clarify what I'm talking about, specifically this notion of an offensive round vs a defensive. Like I said, unless you're talking about Armor Piercing ammunition, I can't see a difference between an offensive round and a defensive round in a handgun, they're both designed to do the same thing. No one makes a bullet that turns into a shield when you fire it. I may very well be ignorant of some type of difference between the two, so if I am, please enlighten me.

Recoil is also not solely dependent on the cartridge you're using. An air light sub compact .357mag or .38 special +P is going to have a much greater amount of felt recoil than say a steel framed .45ACP, .40 S&W, or 9mm, because of the added mass of the frame.

 

[Staccato]

Thank you for all of the responses. Several people have asked why I'm interested in a gun. While I've never been a victim to a violent crime, I do get concerned because my city has gotten bigger with more crimes committed every day. My wife has always been against weapons of every kind but a long talk with her brother seems to have change her mind. With the economy going downhill, people seem to be worried about their futures and weather the police can continue to maintain law and order. I've always believed that they can still protect us but recent events give me reasons to worry.

I took a survey while sitting in a nice, East Memphis neighborhood/ living room in the mid 1980's. The group was comprised of about 1/2 females, and everyone was a 4 yr. college graduate, except one.

The question: "How many of you carry a handgun in your pocket, purse, or car (outside of the home)." The response was 'everyone' in the room.

But, then crime has disappeared since the 80's? Nope!

 

[aborgman]

Recoil is also not solely dependent on the cartridge you're using. An air light sub compact .357mag or .38 special +P is going to have a much greater amount of felt recoil than say a steel framed .45ACP, .40 S&W, or 9mm, because of the added mass of the frame.

Correct - recoil is a product of:

1) Projectile weight
2) Projectile velocity
3) Firearm weight

Increasing 1&2 increase recoil, decreasing 3 increases recoil... and vice versa.

That being said, I've never really shot a pistol with what i would consider excessive recoil.

A 12gauge shotgun with 3.5" Turkey loads, or a .458 Winchester... THAT is excessive recoil.

 

[Steve S]

I think the models of pistols that have been mentioned are:

Sig Saur P230
Sig Saur P225
Kel-Tec
Para-Ordanance P 12
9 mm Beretta
Smith and Wesson M&P
Springfield HD
S&W Model 29
Ruger MK 111
Glock

There's going to be a gun show this weekend at one of the local fairgrounds so I'll probably go to see what these guns look like. Luckily, our kids are grown so we don't have concerns about them hurting themselves with the guns. Please let me know if I've misspelled any of them.

 

[sloasdaylight]

It's the Springfield XD, not HD.

I would also look at Taurus' line of guns. Their craftmanship has come up recently from what they used to be about 10 years ago, and they now make, in my experience, fine firearms. I own the 1911 PT model. I would also not suggest a Glock for a first time gun owner. They don't have any safeties. (Well they do, but it's on the trigger, and doesn't count for much imo).

 

[Jim Campbell]

Not sure I follow your analogy but,...okay

I agree but what I'm trying to point out is that responsible gun ownership means not only keeping the gun out of kids and novices hands, but also out of the hands of criminals.

if not keeping them in your home in fear of them being stolen
is responsible then no....the thief bears every last inch of responsibility....

 

[Munjibunga]

First off, I would not recommend a pistol for a first time buyer, instead you should consider a revolver.

A revolver is a pistol. I think you mean to differentiate it from an automatic.

 

[Staccato]

It's the Springfield XD, not HD.

I would also look at Taurus' line of guns. Their craftmanship has come up recently from what they used to be about 10 years ago, and they now make, in my experience, fine firearms. I own the 1911 PT model. I would also not suggest a Glock for a first time gun owner. They don't have any safeties. (Well they do, but it's on the trigger, and doesn't count for much imo).

Good points, and equipped w/ safety should be the choice for many! My Sig has a decocking lever, it's not the same...

 

[Munjibunga]

I think the models of pistols that have been mentioned are:

Sig Saur P230
Sig Saur P225
Kel-Tec
Para-Ordanance P 12
9 mm Beretta
Smith and Wesson M&P
Springfield HD
S&W Model 29
Ruger MK 111
Glock

There's going to be a gun show this weekend at one of the local fairgrounds so I'll probably go to see what these guns look like. Luckily, our kids are grown so we don't have concerns about them hurting themselves with the guns. Please let me know if I've misspelled any of them.

Steve, I was kind of joking about the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. It is a cannon, probably not suitable for a novice shooter. As Harry Callahan said ...

It will, however, serve the same purpose as a Harley, if you catch my drift.

 

[Pilgrim]

"My wife has always been against weapons of every kind but a long talk with her brother seems to have change her mind."

Steve, that statement relates directly to what I said earlier: there is NO logical way to use a firearm except to kill. You wife is highly unlikely to be willing to do that. It's also extremely unlikely that she will invest enough time in learning how to use it. The probable result is that it will be taken away from her and used on her.

I recommend that you re-consider. This is not a realistic thing for you and her to do, unless you take sole responsibility, and even then IMO you'd be better off investing in a high end home security system.

 

[Chebass88]

"My wife has always been against weapons of every kind but a long talk with her brother seems to have change her mind."

Steve, that statement relates directly to what I said earlier: there is NO logical way to use a firearm except to kill. You wife is highly unlikely to be willing to do that. It's also extremely unlikely that she will invest enough time in learning how to use it. The probable result is that it will be taken away from her and used on her.

I recommend that you re-consider. This is not a realistic thing for you and her to do, unless you take sole responsibility, and even then IMO you'd be better off investing in a high end home security system.

Or, by all means, purchase firearms and use them to make confetti / holes in paper from several yards away.

 

[Johnny Crab]

IF someone kicks in Steve S's door while he is away and his wife is home ARMED, do you not believe that with proper training and fearing for her life that she would and could defend herself?
Would it be better to be defenseless and just beg?

 

[jp58]

I would suggest you look at some other Beretta models than just the 92. The 9 mm is a nice gun, but they also have models that shoot smaller caliber rounds and may be easier to handle for either you or your wife. Both the 84 and 85 are .380, and I've had some experience with the 85, and I like it. Handles well, not terrible on the recoil, etc.

I'm going to second, or third, or fourth going through classes and/or several days at the range before purchasing a handgun. Nothing beats class time or time at the range for helping you to decide on a whether a gun is right for you, and which one.