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Double Bass Gut string aversion

It isn’t, really. The environmental degradation from agricultural action isn’t anything like the poison leached into the water supply from secondary/tertiary petroleum processing and plastics production. Gut strings are FAR more environmentally friendly. Heck, you could compost unwound guts (which would be like composting a large stack of 20$ bills, but less efficient).

Yes, none of us would want to live near a pig farm, but it sure beats living near a Superfund site. Don’t believe me? Google “Love Canal”. My father was working in Niagara Falls when that was happening. Papers and magazines published pics at the time of the poor kids born with birth defects to parents that were exposed to industrial waste, which were properly shocking (even more died of childhood cancers). A century and a half of heavy industry and refinery in this country (and it’s demise) have left our country dotted with thousands of similar sites in precarious positions relative to ground water. Industrial scale farming is wholesome by comparison. The difference is, it’s FAR easier to opt out of eating meat than it is to opt out of using plastic, aluminum, etc.

In concept at the less detailed level, yes, I would agree, but upon closer examination agricultural work can in fact be as bad or worse. Pesticides and fertilizers stay in the soil long term and eventually seep down into the water table, and unreasonable overuse of crop land creates deserts around the world. Cattle medications and bio-enhancements such as antibiotics and steroids end up in the soil through waste products and do the same, in addition to the methane, etc., air quality problems that exist. Either of these food categories also end up directly being eaten by us, along with their additives, with unknown results. For people living in strong agricultural industry areas, the resulting environmental issues do make a difference in health and quality of life.

The truth is, just about everything we touch has some potential to do ecology damage which can turn back against us in one way or another; the real question is how much. Higher human population rates can produce more damage; it is supply and demand market driven.

Essentially though, by themselves the impact of gut strings seem to be nearly null, although they are a part of the much larger and more impactful cattle industry. Personally that doesn't mean I wouldn't ever use them, but it is an interesting part of the equation.
 
I'm a vegan -- I eat honey so not technically -- and I have gut strings on my bass. I purchased them used. I mainly object to factory farming and as far as I can tell gut strings are at best a byproduct of that and not anything that sheep are being killed for. It is a degree of complicity, but since organic fertilizer is made of blood and bones from animals killed in factory farming eating an organic ear of corn is as well. At least in this case I can use it to play Bach and they last a lot longer than eating an ear of corn. As an aside there is nothing for your bowing hand like playing arco on guts.

I have no longings for ice cream. Fake ice cream is fine and dairy now tastes kind of disgusting to me. Pity me!
 
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I swear, it's comments like those about intonation and blending that make me feel like my ears are wired differently, not to mention everything else going around me making me feel like I'm in a different world sometimes.

Sure, there's a little bit of tuning instability moving from one location to another, but that's only for a short time, easily rectified by showing up early and letting the instrument acclimate for thirty minutes or so, and only really affects the overwound E string. My plain strings never have a problem and are a lot more stable day to day on my old flatback than any steel strings I ever played on were on any bass. Never had an issue hearing the pitch clearly so long as I've got enough volume that I can hear myself at all—I've had an easier time since making the swap, even.

Bowing is harder but it's made me get better than I ever used to be so I can't really complain.

Trimming the fibers and sanding the string can be a pain sometimes, but I only ever feel like I need to do that every couple of months at most.

And regarding the sound in an ensemble—that might be as much a matter of the bass being played as the strings on it. Martin Heinze in the Berlin Phil plays gut strings, at least on the D and G, it's clear as day in his headshot on their site and any videos they've got with him in the shot. And where I've been worried about the sound sticking out too much before playing in musical or orchestra gigs, I've instead been told that my sound blends and supports the ensembles really well—extra surprising, when I'm the only bassist and everybody else is on steel strings!

(Or maybe it's because I'm the only bassist, who knows.)

Even my old teacher, who started when gut strings were the only things available and hated them, said that he actually liked them and how they sounded on my bass. Now I just really want to get ahold of Mark Foley one of these days and have him play my bass for a while and see what he thinks.

Regarding the philosophical side of playing on gut strings and the use of animal bits in general—I'm not at all a vegan, but I've got a load of problems with the wider aspects of the farming industry both on the animal husbandry side and just on the actual crop farming side. I think it's a massive shame how much the typical western (and especially American) diet has moved to only consuming muscular tissue from any animal slaughtered, both for general reasons of the healthiness of what we eat and the sheer aspect of respecting that something with a brain and senses and some level of processing experience that is not all that dissimilar from our own had to die for us to be able to eat it. Treating any part of it as a "byproduct" to be tossed out or (at best) repurposed in some other way as fertilizer/pet food/etc. is insulting to both the animal and to the way humans lived and relied on them for millennia. The conscious decision to use parts of the animal for functional and/or artistic reasons is much more respectful than what we usually let happen to them without considering it whatsoever.

In relation to the above, while I think people should eat more organ meats (they're good for you! If you want something good for your heart, eat heart! Good for your liver, eat liver! They're much more nutritionally dense than regular muscular tissue! And they taste good! Even kidney if you actually know how to prepare it!), I also think the vast majority of people need to be made to come to terms with the fact that the meat they eat didn't just spontaneously appear in the restaurant fridge or in the little styrofoam tray with plastic wrapping at the supermarket. Meet the animal you're going to eat. Or at least witness the process it actually takes to take something living and turn it into food from start to finish. Pick out your own chicken where it's walking around and do the entire process of turning it into a nice roast bird yourself.

But my brother's family does butchery and meat packing, not to mention hunting, as do many of my friends, and one of my uncles raises cattle and gives us in the family a half a cow every year at Christmas to go in the deep freezer, so I'm actually somewhat used to these things.
 
I swear, it's comments like those about intonation and blending that make me feel like my ears are wired differently, not to mention everything else going around me making me feel like I'm in a different world sometimes.

Sure, there's a little bit of tuning instability moving from one location to another, but that's only for a short time, easily rectified by showing up early and letting the instrument acclimate for thirty minutes or so, and only really affects the overwound E string. My plain strings never have a problem and are a lot more stable day to day on my old flatback than any steel strings I ever played on were on any bass. Never had an issue hearing the pitch clearly so long as I've got enough volume that I can hear myself at all—I've had an easier time since making the swap, even.

Bowing is harder but it's made me get better than I ever used to be so I can't really complain.

Trimming the fibers and sanding the string can be a pain sometimes, but I only ever feel like I need to do that every couple of months at most.

And regarding the sound in an ensemble—that might be as much a matter of the bass being played as the strings on it. Martin Heinze in the Berlin Phil plays gut strings, at least on the D and G, it's clear as day in his headshot on their site and any videos they've got with him in the shot. And where I've been worried about the sound sticking out too much before playing in musical or orchestra gigs, I've instead been told that my sound blends and supports the ensembles really well—extra surprising, when I'm the only bassist and everybody else is on steel strings!

(Or maybe it's because I'm the only bassist, who knows.)

Even my old teacher, who started when gut strings were the only things available and hated them, said that he actually liked them and how they sounded on my bass. Now I just really want to get ahold of Mark Foley one of these days and have him play my bass for a while and see what he thinks.

Regarding the philosophical side of playing on gut strings and the use of animal bits in general—I'm not at all a vegan, but I've got a load of problems with the wider aspects of the farming industry both on the animal husbandry side and just on the actual crop farming side. I think it's a massive shame how much the typical western (and especially American) diet has moved to only consuming muscular tissue from any animal slaughtered, both for general reasons of the healthiness of what we eat and the sheer aspect of respecting that something with a brain and senses and some level of processing experience that is not all that dissimilar from our own had to die for us to be able to eat it. Treating any part of it as a "byproduct" to be tossed out or (at best) repurposed in some other way as fertilizer/pet food/etc. is insulting to both the animal and to the way humans lived and relied on them for millennia. The conscious decision to use parts of the animal for functional and/or artistic reasons is much more respectful than what we usually let happen to them without considering it whatsoever.

In relation to the above, while I think people should eat more organ meats (they're good for you! If you want something good for your heart, eat heart! Good for your liver, eat liver! They're much more nutritionally dense than regular muscular tissue! And they taste good! Even kidney if you actually know how to prepare it!), I also think the vast majority of people need to be made to come to terms with the fact that the meat they eat didn't just spontaneously appear in the restaurant fridge or in the little styrofoam tray with plastic wrapping at the supermarket. Meet the animal you're going to eat. Or at least witness the process it actually takes to take something living and turn it into food from start to finish. Pick out your own chicken where it's walking around and do the entire process of turning it into a nice roast bird yourself.

But my brother's family does butchery and meat packing, not to mention hunting, as do many of my friends, and one of my uncles raises cattle and gives us in the family a half a cow every year at Christmas to go in the deep freezer, so I'm actually somewhat used to these things.
You’re not crazy. Guts sound great. Playing in tune is playing in tune no matter what kind of string you use. Bowing guts definitely helped me understand weighting and bow speed in ways that I still incorporate into steel playing. Everyone should try guts in my opinion. Ultimately I was seduced by the particular power of steel, and full-range, broad dynamic bowing all the way to the end of the fingerboard and beyond. I like the colors, the ability to go bright, the chameleon qualities of steel. I can better imitate a gut string on steel than the other way around. Also I regularly break down my bass and pack it in two cases for touring. The steels handle this very well.
 
Also I regularly break down my bass and pack it in two cases for touring. The steels handle this very well.

Now that I don't think anybody in their right mind would ever find themselves disputing. I wouldn't dream of doing something like that to my strings—although, for all the benefits of them and my willingness to recommend them to those they would benefit, I'm not actually a fan of removable necks or similar solutions.

I just find that I have a much easier time with guts and getting a good sound (good intonation, good tone, etc.) than I ever did on steels or synthetics—including all the way up and down the board. No doubt turning back around after the work playing guts made me put into my bowing would show a noticeable change, but I still prefer the sound and feel of guts ultimately. The only steel strings that remotely interest me under the bow anymore are spirocores because, despite living in a very different tonal area, they're as demanding as guts are under the bow...but my callus-denying, blister-prone fingers would hate them.
 
That's one of those benefits I mentioned.

Would rather have my bass than someone else's, would still prefer to have a solid neck rather than a removable neck despite the irrationality of it in the face of modern travel with these things.

I wonder how often people wish we still lived in the days when you could buy a seat for your bass or cello on the plane and load it in that way. Wasn't very far before my time, but by the time I ever started playing and thinking about the travel aspect that was long gone—and instead I got to grow up reading stories of airlines negligently destroying instruments or TSA agents not even following their own regulations and destroying instruments under the guise of a "search."
 
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As the OP it's fascinating to me how this thread has morphed. As someone who actually did buy a seat for the bass several times back in the olden days I can tell you that it was no cake walk. I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't fly with my own instrument again. I had enough close calls even with a BG that I would find a way to borrow or rent one of those as well. I also ran into my share of BSOs but the lack of travel stress made it worth it to me. JMO
 
a variable to add to the guts discussion is that there are many varieties of guts, and they can vary widely. i think something to consider with guts is that there is no one set that might work for you and your bass. wrapped, wrapping material, plain, how thick/tense, varnished or not, etc. i fully believe that you need to search to find the ones that will work best for you, sometimes one string at a time.

When it comes to intonation, obviously the string in question will matter. It is indeed hard for me to hear the fundamental of various A and E guts, sometimes even a D is muddy. Gut G's usually sound much more clearer. Also consider that some of us can't hear as well as we used to, so might need a string with more zing in the high end to make out if we are in tune or not.

And that is where my aversion is to guts. nothing to do with the material they are made from...i think it's pretty badass actually to be playing on the innards of an animal, lol.
 
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I've always found it interesting how modern humans will draw a line in the sand about what life forms they deem ok to kill for food and other uses, and which they will not. Aren't trees and plant life pretty important, in general....to just about everything on the planet? Does anyone have an aversion to the bass made out of wood...which comes from trees....which were once living creatures?

There have been many times when people who aren't aware of gut ask me about my strings, and get grossed out when I explain that gut literally means gut. I think they fail to realize that there was a time on this planet, not so long ago when human beings were much, much more resourceful and found uses for every part of everything they killed. Organic life consumes organic life.
 
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So you feel that a removable neck degrades the sound? I did not find that to be the case at all. I owned my bass for five years or more before having the neck conversion. But that’s really another thread isn’t it. My bass changes quite a bit with humidity, temperature, the room, etc, all my carved basses changed from day to day, but the neck conversion hasn’t changed anything sonically.
 
Re: temperature changes...

While my Alcoa is extremely stable related to humidity, temperatures related to metal expansion and contraction can play games with it...

And more on topic, the synthetic strings I'm using also change wildly with temperature changes. I honestly can't imagine gut strings could be any worse. In our very temperature-stable house I have noticeable string changes just going from night to day, where there's probably not much more than a 2 degree difference inside. Outside, where I play the most for jams, can be crazy. It's a serious enough issue that I'll request AC/heat changes in a building if I'm playing a gig situated near a thermo vent, otherwise I'll have to tune a lot.
 
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"Strings of steel are made for better singing. They always sound well compared to those hairy affairs of gut which are prone to breathing and wheezing. One has to be more careful balancing the pressure applied, the placement on the string, and the speed of the bow for every particular note. Pulling strings is the idea, not pressing them. It is very much like the difference between sailing and a motor sloop. But I wouldn't trade the crunch of my gut strings in these first two eighth notes for a million." Bylsma on the first minuet of the first suite.
 
"Strings of steel are made for better singing. They always sound well compared to those hairy affairs of gut which are prone to breathing and wheezing. One has to be more careful balancing the pressure applied, the placement on the string, and the speed of the bow for every particular note. Pulling strings is the idea, not pressing them. It is very much like the difference between sailing and a motor sloop. But I wouldn't trade the crunch of my gut strings in these first two eighth notes for a million." Bylsma on the first minuet of the first suite.
Just goes to show you. Play what you like. Best way to sound good is enjoy playing.
 
The two biggest reasons I play gut:

1. Chasing tone I hear on old records.
2. Easy on the hands.

I have some physical issues that make steel a problem for me to play on. The truth is that I love Evahs, but even the Wiechs are impossible on my left hand and connective muscles/tendons. They are the one string that occasionally pulls me away from gut. I'm still considering a set of solos tuned to standard. The reality is that there are things I'm probably capable of pulling of easier on non-gut strings. But at some point I just accept my limitations and get on with enjoying what I'm doing.

The tuning issues with gut I file under YMMV. For the pros here, I can only imagine that touring would be much harder on those issues. I'm not in that world. While I've had a few nightmare gigs related to tuning gut, they have been very few and far between.