Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

[MR PC]

Some slabber, can't remember his name. Peter Tork, maybe.[/QUOT

Peter Tork. Tarzan the Terrible.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Actually, I think it was Hank Aaron who got the credit for that quote.

Then some slabber said it famously. Pretty sure it was Peter Tork.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

No, wait.... it was some other slabber.... Jocko somebody.

 

[MR PC]

No, wait.... it was some other slabber.... Jocko somebody.

That's right, and he famously borrowed many things.... also played with a lot of guts......

 

[sean p]

"it ain't bragging if you can back it up"

-jaco pastorius

peter tork? whodat? did i miss some sarcasm or something?

 

[Treyzer]

"it ain't bragging if you can back it up"

-jaco pastorius

Funny to see where this went......... Mr. PC & Marcus you both are right. I'm trying to work out the logistics of a gut string experiment. I can tell this might turn into a Love Hate type of thing...........Gamuts, Chordas, Olives and the other impossible to spell one starts with a D And away we go!!!!!!!!

 

[Marcus Johnson]

"

peter tork? whodat? did i miss some sarcasm or something?

A-yup.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I'm trying to work out the logistics of a gut string experiment. I can tell this might turn into a Love Hate type of thing...........Gamuts, Chordas, Olives and the other impossible to spell one starts with a D And away we go!!!!!!!!

Whoa. The club is growing. We keep this up, there's gonna be a shortage of sausage casings.

I'm really digging them. The arco is working way better than I had hoped.

 

[Phil Rowan]

I'm rocking EP regular E/A w/ my Red-O-Ray D and Artone G now (switched from the nicely growly/punchy but ambiguously tonal Chorda A) and am digging it a lot. I wish the Red-O-Ray's tension were a lil closer to that of the Artone G (which is really nice and responsive tension-wise), but it's still possible to make it work. New ebony fb on this Kay doesn't hurt either, of course.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

So last night about 10:00, a whole bunch of noisy, happy people arrived on Maui and settled into the Four Seasons lounge, before heading up to their suites. Every seat filled, and lots more milling around in the lobby. That was great to see, by the way.

Anyway, it really struck me how the bass was just punching through all the noise. I could really hear everything clearly with the Gamuts on. Used to be we'd just turn into musical wallpaper at that point. But these really seem to carry right through the din.

 

[Gearhead43]

What is it that makes gut punch through so loudly, yet they are so low tension?

The loudest strings by far on my old plywood bass have been guts -but maybe it's because I hear that huge fundamental as "loudness". I have heard alot of players swear that steel strings are louder - but to me that's just the extra harmonic content (I call it "whine").

Seems like some of us have ears trained toward the fundamental, and some listeners hear the "zing" more?

So far, there's really no true substitute for real gut, for me anyway. I wish there was a cheaper E&A substitute for the Olives I like so much, (they are damn pricey!) but I need a very dark string for the slap style I play. Too bright a string and there's too much "twang" in the slap tone for me.

I have been just loving the Olive E&A / Lenzner D&G on my bass. It gets me "that sound" playing Country, Western Swing, and Blues.

 

[Mark Perna]

What is it that makes gut punch through so loudly, yet they are so low tension?

The loudest strings by far on my old plywood bass have been guts -but maybe it's because I hear that huge fundamental as "loudness". I have heard alot of players swear that steel strings are louder - but to me that's just the extra harmonic content (I call it "whine").

Seems like some of us have ears trained toward the fundamental, and some listeners hear the "zing" more?

Steel strings are probably louder if you measured with a sound pressure meter but much of the apparent volume is in the midrange frequencies which are also, critically, occupied by other instruments. Gut is mostly fundamental and lower harmonics where other instrument can't go so it has a bunch of sonic real estate all to itself. So if you played, solo, identical basses one strung with gut and one strung with steel and someone stood out in front, they'd probably hear the steel as "louder". In a band setting, where a lot of the steel string's sound is being masked by other louder instruments, the gut bass sneaks through underneath everything else and is heard.

That was one of the great realizations I had after playing gut with a band for the first time. I could hear myself without having to pound or really crank up. The drums and piano and sax were having a sonic orgy above me and I could play just about whatever I wanted underneath without having any sonic conflicts.

mark

 

[Uncletoad]

Steel strings are probably louder if you measured with a sound pressure meter but much of the apparent volume is in the midrange frequencies which are also, critically, occupied by other instruments. Gut is mostly fundamental and lower harmonics where other instrument can't go so it has a bunch of sonic real estate all to itself. So if you played, solo, identical basses one strung with gut and one strung with steel and someone stood out in front, they'd probably hear the steel as "louder". In a band setting, where a lot of the steel string's sound is being masked by other louder instruments, the gut bass sneaks through underneath everything else and is heard.

That was one of the great realizations I had after playing gut with a band for the first time. I could hear myself without having to pound or really crank up. The drums and piano and sax were having a sonic orgy above me and I could play just about whatever I wanted underneath without having any sonic conflicts.

mark

Perfect description.

 

[Gearhead43]

Perfect description.

+1 That makes perfect sense, thanks calivox!

 

[AndreasH]

Steel strings are probably louder if you measured with a sound pressure meter but much of the apparent volume is in the midrange frequencies which are also, critically, occupied by other instruments. Gut is mostly fundamental and lower harmonics where other instrument can't go so it has a bunch of sonic real estate all to itself. So if you played, solo, identical basses one strung with gut and one strung with steel and someone stood out in front, they'd probably hear the steel as "louder". In a band setting, where a lot of the steel string's sound is being masked by other louder instruments, the gut bass sneaks through underneath everything else and is heard.

That was one of the great realizations I had after playing gut with a band for the first time. I could hear myself without having to pound or really crank up. The drums and piano and sax were having a sonic orgy above me and I could play just about whatever I wanted underneath without having any sonic conflicts.

mark

What he said.

Well put Mark. I haven't used an amp for one and a half year now thanks to both Guts, Garbos and combinations in between, and I couldn't be happier. I more often get too damn loud than not being heard. I love my guts right now.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I'm starting to get the slightest inkling that I might need to throw on some Animas (or Garbos) to match the power of the Gamuts up top.

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

I'm starting to get the slightest inkling that I might need to throw on some Animas (or Garbos) to match the power of the Gamuts up top.

and the itch continues. i need to get rid of my A string it's starting to buzz. so i might just get a new pair of E and A. want me to send you my E and A so you can try out the feel?

they're garbo btw

 

[Marcus Johnson]

No, I'm cool... thanks for your continuing generosity. I think I have some old Animas here somewhere.

The Evahs are a great match.... but they are just very slightly quieter than the Gamuts, played at the same input level. The Velvets were always so damn LOUD on my bass... just got me thinkin'. These Gamuts are just larger than life!

 

[Mark Perna]

I'm loving the Garbo/Gamut match on my '28. I still have the Gamut A and E on the '74. I'd like to try the Garbos on the '74 but I don't want to take them off the '28 because I'm afraid they might not respond well to being taken off and put back on. And they sound so good now that I don't want to risk it.

I'd also like to try the Gamut wrapped A and E on the '28 but I have the same problem in that the Garbos would have to come off. I've mixed and match Pistoy and Lyon D and G on both basses and it has been really illuminating seeing, feeling and hearing how differently the bass respond to the strings.

It is a totally different gut experience using Garbos vs. wrapped gut though. With the Garbos (and I'm sure Animas would be similar and they are on my short list of things to try soon), the bass is more stable. It almost feels like a steel string bass although with much lower tension. The intonation doesn't vary very much from day to day even on the D and G strings. It isn't Spiro solid where you tune every week or so (whether you need to or not) but it is a far cry from having to tune between tunes on well broken in strings which is the all gut experience. You also get some growl or at least more growl than you get out of wrapped guts (I still get some growl out the wrapped guts). Those are the positives. The negatives are the sound of an all gut bass is amazing. There is just nothing like it and you can't get it without all gut.

My '28 is the better bass and it is more versatile with the Garbos on however, I pick up and play the '74 with all gut and it is a heavenly experience.

mark

 

[bassbuddie]

Mark, would you consider a Eudoxa A and E and gamut on top as All guts?
Or you mean Other types of wound gut...
This may be a stupid question but Eoxa are the first gut core I tried and I was wondering if the Gamut wound gut are the same kind of string..

Francois