Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

[bonaventura]

I just have a feeling that the Animas on the bottom and the Gamuts up top would really be smokin'. Seems like the tension would be nice.... just right.

Plus, the arco on the lower Animas is not bad. I mainly had trouble with the higher strings. The Gamuts, OTOH, are great arco strings for me.

hey marcus, my own view based on my own experience and on my gut bass is that the Gamut wound E and A are the perfect strings for the Gamut D and G. Soundwise in quality and quantity, tension, etc. you might want to try them first. the intonation fluctuation thing isn't really all as bad as some make it sound like. i think Animas are good, they're close but not the cigar. fwiw, ymmv, imho.

 

[Nuno A.]

Is Velvet still marketing the "Garbo Lights" set? I remember Nuno saying that they were designed to mimic the tension of wound guts.

Velvet still makes the Garbo in light version. In my opinion and on my basses they match better with the plain G and D gut because they have less tension than the regular Garbo ( 23 kgs per string instead of 25 kgs) and so tension wise they are closer to plain gut. the regular Garbo may have more volume and attack but i prefer the lights with the plain gut. however we have a bass here with the regular Garbo + a plain G gut (that will belong to a future new set of Garbo that will have a plain G gut) )and the regular Garbo just sound loose and fabulous, feel like the lights on my bass but with more volume and attack.... maybe because its a 150 old English bass

Nuno

 

[Marcus Johnson]

hey marcus, my own view based on my own experience and on my gut bass is that the Gamut wound E and A are the perfect strings for the Gamut D and G. Soundwise in quality and quantity, tension, etc. you might want to try them first. the intonation fluctuation thing isn't really all as bad as some make it sound like. i think Animas are good, they're close but not the cigar. fwiw, ymmv, imho.

Yeah, that's an option as well.... Dan's "Baroque bass" set. It's on the table when I go shopping again.

Thing is, I have only one bass at the moment... so my "gut bass" would also be my "daily driver". I have to figure out if that's what I really want to do, come string shopping time.

 

[AndreasH]

however we have a bass here with the regular Garbo + a plain G gut (that will belong to a future new set of Garbo that will have a plain G gut) )

Nuno

Wow! That's what I call good news! Maybe it's time to go back to Garbos

 

[bonaventura]

Yeah, that's an option as well.... Dan's "Baroque bass" set. It's on the table when I go shopping again.

Thing is, I have only one bass at the moment... so my "gut bass" would also be my "daily driver". I have to figure out if that's what I really want to do, come string shopping time.

marcus, i don't mean the whole baroque set. i just wanted you to know that you might really like the wound E and A. i mean, it's really a match for your D and G guts. on my bass i've had them on almost a year and they are great. i've compared the E recently to an anima, a eudoxa, EP, and the Gamut wins hands down. they have the sound to go with the Gamut D and G... imho, ymmv, fwiw, dltm (don't listen to me), igbc (i gotta be crazy), etc

 

[bonaventura]

I was having a small crisis of faith earlier today. I have a sax/bass duet gig tonight and I was a little afraid that the guts might not be out front enough since I have to be bass, drums AND piano. I had contemplated putting the Mittels back on for tonight. ...That was enough. Crisis averted. While there is absolutely something to be said for Mittels, they are great strings, that metallic sound just isn't in my head anymore. The guts have a human vocal quality that I just can't get with metal strings.

mark

mark

are you still enraptured by the Gamut Lyon / Pistoy G and D you had on a few months back? update, please!

bill

 

[Marcus Johnson]

marcus, i don't mean the whole baroque set.

Sorry, I meant the packaged set that Dan offers, with the Lyon G, Pistoy D, and the wrapped A & E, for $472.00. In the text on his website, he calls it a "set for the baroque bass". It's in the same section as all the other double bass strings.

It just depends on what my needs are when I replace strings next time. I do like the fact that one can rewind the lowers when they get tired. And I probably owe it to myself to try the full set. The ones I have now are killer.... I just can't wait to go to work every day.

 

[Mark Perna]

mark

are you still enraptured by the Gamut Lyon / Pistoy G and D you had on a few months back? update, please!

bill

Bill: I have two basses both strung with gut. The '28 Juzek has always been my main bass and it is the one I kept strung with Spiros when I embarked on this gut adventure. Just about all of the postings I've made since March have been about the '74 Juzek which was originally my backup. Once I put gut on the '74, I was in love and never looked back; it is the one that, after a bit of experimenting ended up with a Lyon G, Pistoy D and wrapped Gamut gut A and E. I kept the steel on the '28 because I though I might need a steel string bass for a recording project or some such thing but with, one exception, I never did and the bass sat mostly unused for 4 or 5 months.

About a month ago, I put a Lyon medium G, Lyon light D and medium Garbo A and E on the '28 and it has become my main bass again. It is just smokin'! I've picked up the '74 a couple of times but about 99% of my playing is back on the '28. I'd like to try wrapped gut on the A and E on this bass but the Garbos sound phenomenal and I don't know how they'll respond to being taken off and put back on. It's one of those "everything's working so I don't want to mess with it" kind of things. When the Garbos go, I'd like to give wrapped gut and Animas a try. The nice thing about the Garbos, other than they sound great, is they are very stable tuning-wise which is one less thing to worry about (although, once I got used it, wrapped gut wasn't much of a problem either).

Finally, on the '74 there was a big difference in timbre between G Lyon and the D Lyon which was solved with the D Pistoy. On the '28, there is very little difference in timbre between the G Lyon and D Lyon so I've got Lyons on both G and D on the '28.


mark

 

[bonaventura]

... I just can't wait to go to work every day.

marcus, man you are so lucky. i "still" have a day job...

yeah i see he calls it "baroque" but describes it as a bundle of the most popular strings for bass. there's no break on the price, like a package price.

now after playing the full set for a year i am curious about how a light Pistoy D would sound on my bass. the one other thing i am curioius about is how a "heavy+" wound E would sound. the tone and sound of the medium Lyon E is perfect, but i would try the heavier one to see if it has more tension, perhaps more volume.

...It's one of those "everything's working so I don't want to mess with it" kind of things. When the Garbos go, I'd like to give wrapped gut and Animas a try. The nice thing about the Garbos, other than they sound great, is they are very stable tuning-wise which is one less thing to worry about (although, once I got used it, wrapped gut wasn't much of a problem either).

Finally, on the '74 there was a big difference in timbre between G Lyon and the D Lyon which was solved with the D Pistoy. On the '28, there is very little difference in timbre between the G Lyon and D Lyon so I've got Lyons on both G and D on the '28.

right, don't fix it if it ain't broke. me i don't mind tuning the wound gut E and A up every day.

but tell me isn't there a tension difference between the Gamuts and the Garbos? what about the tone and sound? you are in the unique position to make a general comparision because you've got the Gamut E and A on the '74.

and with the Pistoy D on the '74, if i understand you it actually diminished the big sound of the Lyon D you previously had, correct? the Pistoy is more focused, more of a center, while the Lyon is a bigger more complex sound?

 

[Mark Perna]

but tell me isn't there a tension difference between the Gamuts and the Garbos? what about the tone and sound? you are in the unique position to make a general comparision because you've got the Gamut E and A on the '74.

and with the Pistoy D on the '74, if i understand you it actually diminished the big sound of the Lyon D you previously had, correct? the Pistoy is more focused, more of a center, while the Lyon is a bigger more complex sound?

There is a tension difference between the Garbos and the Gamuts but since I haven't tried wrapped gut on this bass yet, I don't know how big of a difference. It feels great though. This is a 42.5 inch scale bass so the extra string length may help with that.

I don't know if I would call the difference a diminishment of sound between the Pistoy D and Lyon D. While there is a sonic difference, the volume is about the same.. The Pistoy D is more focused but doesn't have as much bloom around the note. To be honest, I don't hear much bloom around the notes on the '28 with a Lyon D either so that might have been something specific to the '74 or it could be because of the Garbos on the '28. What I've found is everything is so bass specific that it is hard to make any generalizations. If you find your Lyon D to be a little tubby as compared to the other strings, the Pistoy D MIGHT work better. Not much help, I know.

mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

On my bass, the Lyon D is remarkably focused, even up near the end of the fingerboard. I wouldn't use the word "tubby" for the D in my case... it is very big sounding, with a nice bloom to it, and a great match for the G, which has very good focus. Playing horizontally, across the two Gamuts and on to the Evahs below, is no problem whatsoever.

I suppose the only reason for me to try the Pistoy D in the future would be curiosity. There aren't any real limitations to the Lyons in the aggressive soloing department.... and of course walking on them is pure joy.

The arco sound of the Gamuts has been a revelation to me. I was expecting more of that nasal thing that you can get when bowing guts. When playing acoustically, it's barely there, though it is enhanced somewhat when played through an amp. The sound is hard to describe... full and complex, with that "whoosh" little bit of air in the sound. Very human voice-like, very expressive. I've really come to dig it. The Evahs actually sound just a bit thin in comparison (but not enough to throw it out of balance). I'd think the full Gamut set would be a great arco set.

 

[Mark Perna]

The other interesting characteristic of the Pistoys is they respond much faster and seem to have less side to side play in them than the Lyons. While I've been able to work up my chops on the Lyons, I can FLY on Pistoys. They have the tension of gut but a faster response that is almost Spiro-like. From that perspective they are fantastic.

I've only really tried the Pistoys on the '74 and while I really like the D, I like the Lyon G a bit more. If the Lyon G didn't exist, I'd happily take the Pistoy G but on my '74 the Lyon is more appealing to me. I did put the Pistoy G on the '28 for about 5 minutes when I first tried gut on that bass but I quickly switched it out for a Lyon which I immediately liked better as well. I haven't tried the Pistoy D on the '28 yet but would like to. When the Lyons need replacing, I'll do some experimenting.

These things are so bass-specific though that I don't know if any of my experience will transfer to any other bass. For that matter, my experiences, for the most part, on MY '74 don't transfer to MY '28 and both basses are played by me with my preferred setup on both.

I've decided to skip the CH Chordas for now. I was this close <me holding my fingers about an inch apart> to getting them and if Pirastro would have taken credit cards or Paypal, I would have. Unfortunately for them, they only take bank transfers which means I'd have to actually go to my bank, stand in line and fill out a bunch of paperwork. It felt like too much work and I lost interest. Everything sounds so good right now that I wouldn't have tried them for a while anyway.

mark

 

[Uncletoad]

Be hard pressed to find a better sounding gut G string than those Gamut G's. I've tried at least 9 or 10 and nothing comes close.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

The other interesting characteristic of the Pistoys is they respond much faster

I have to wonder if that's a good thing.... You know how the Lyons have that "ping" and then the bloom afterwards. Yummy. It's like "wait for it". I'm not sure that I want a gut string that approaches Spiro-like response. The cool thing about the Lyons that you gave me; I can pop off short little percussive lines, or I can hang in there for a nice long note, or anything in between.

I'm sure the Lyons are great, and can do all of that too.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Be hard pressed to find a better sounding gut G string than those Gamut G's. I've tried at least 9 or 10 and nothing comes close.

I agree ... right in there with the Oliv, but different, and I'd say better.

 

[Uncletoad]

I agree ... right in there with the Oliv, but different, and I'd say better.

Yea for sure. Oliv is choked and dark in comparison. Smother under the bow but I'm not sure it's worth the trade. I'd rather have the Gamut.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Oliv is choked and dark in comparison.

Well, it's covered with metal!

I love the Oliv G too, in its own way.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I'd rather have the Gamut.

Are you snufflin' around in your string drawer?

 

[Mark Perna]

On my bass, the Lyon D is remarkably focused, even up near the end of the fingerboard. I wouldn't use the word "tubby" for the D in my case... it is very big sounding, with a nice bloom to it, and a great match for the G, which has very good focus. Playing horizontally, across the two Gamuts and on to the Evahs below, is no problem whatsoever.

The arco sound of the Gamuts has been a revelation to me. I was expecting more of that nasal thing that you can get when bowing guts. When playing acoustically, it's barely there, though it is enhanced somewhat when played through an amp. The sound is hard to describe... full and complex, with that "whoosh" little bit of air in the sound. Very human voice-like, very expressive. I've really come to dig it. The Evahs actually sound just a bit thin in comparison (but not enough to throw it out of balance). I'd think the full Gamut set would be a great arco set.

That's been my experience with the Lyon D on the '28 as well. I only messed a little bit with arco but the wrapped E and A really grabbed the bow. I suck at bowing though so take whatever I say about bowing with a grain of salt. I had started to mess around with the bow again back in March when I first put the Gamuts on. I didn't stay with it too long though because whenever I bowed, the pizz sound would get darker afterward and would stay that way until I got a wet cloth and rubbed all of that rosin crap off of the strings.

mark

 

[Mark Perna]

I have to wonder if that's a good thing.... You know how the Lyons have that "ping" and then the bloom afterwards. Yummy. It's like "wait for it". I'm not sure that I want a gut string that approaches Spiro-like response. The cool thing about the Lyons that you gave me; I can pop off short little percussive lines, or I can hang in there for a nice long note, or anything in between.

I'm sure the Lyons are great, and can do all of that too.

There's a ping with the Pistoys as well but the Lyon is better for what we do. It is shocking though to spend most of your time on Lyons and then pick up a bass with Pistoys. MUCH easier to get around. But ultimately, it is the SOUND that rules and the Lyons, particularly the G, have it in spades. I still want to give the Pistoy D a run on the '28 though but not until the Lyon D is getting ready for replacement.

mark