Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

[bonaventura]

Everyone is different in their relationship with strings. Different people's playing can erode a string at different rates. Plus what one considers dead another may think is in the sweet spot.

For me the Gamut Gut plain strings lasted about 6 months before I want a new pair. For someone else they could last 6 years.

yes, there was a post the other day, he had lent out his bass with gut strings and it came back with the strings unravelling, the heavy hand struck again...

but UT, what was it that changed for you at 6 months? did they lose tone, were they fraying and shedding hair? for me they were just settled in at 6 months...

ymmv, imho, fwiw.

 

[Uncletoad]

yes, there was a post the other day, he had lent out his bass with gut strings and it came back with the strings unravelling, the heavy hand struck again...

but UT, what was it that changed for you at 6 months? did they lose tone, were they fraying and shedding hair? for me they were just settled in at 6 months...

ymmv, imho, fwiw.

I tend to pull really hard, especially on gut. They loose their ping and the notes shorten to a thud after a bunch of months doing that several days a week in and out of all kinds of environments. I also have specific expectations traditional gut players may not. I like to have some long tones pizz on the D/G from time to time and the newer Gamuts have it, the worn in ones don't.

 

[bonaventura]

I tend to pull really hard, especially on gut. They loose their ping and the notes shorten to a thud after a bunch of months doing that several days a week in and out of all kinds of environments. I also have specific expectations traditional gut players may not. I like to have some long tones pizz on the D/G from time to time and the newer Gamuts have it, the worn in ones don't.

ok, pulling hard like that would explain it. constant stretching will eventually destroy them or deteriorate them to the point they lose the ping and shorten to a thud.

i don't pull that hard, at least not all the time. i find the Gamuts even after a year still have good sustain on the D an G, and on the copper wound E and A it is awesome.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I feel as though I get more sound out of the guts by not pulling all that hard on them most of the time. There's a happy medium kind of attack that gets the best sound for me. It seems that hand placement near the end of the fingerboard is possibly a more important factor in getting a nice, big, clean sound. Since the Evahs have been similar in that regard, they match up nicely on my bass.

I have not experienced Animas dying out early. Aside from one broken E string (most likely my fault for not filing the nut slot correctly), I got well over a year out of them, and I recall them still sounding fine when I took them off.

 

[Mark Perna]

+1

It's almost a zen process figuring out how hard to pull strings to get the most sound and best tone out of them. I've found with guts that a lighter touch is more productive. You can dampen them and squash the tone if you overplay them. At the same time, too light a touch and they (and every other string, I guess), doesn't project.

Totally agree that playing at the end of the fingerboard is key. I think it is way more important to play there with guts than with Spiros. Spiros have different usable sounds you can get by plucking at different places on the fingerboard. Guts aren't as versatile. There is some play but not much.

mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Oh yeah.... the other thing I've noticed is that good left hand shape helps a lot in getting the most out of guts. Thinking of that "fingertips as pistons, pushing the string down into the wood" idea really does the trick (forgot who described it that way). Flat fingers.... not so much.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Ahh I dunno. It's the same s--t. At home I practice and hate spirocores, I get out on the gig and it's like tonight with 99% humidity at 80 deg and I couldn't make it through the gig sticking to those guts.

I put on arco strings and think I sound amazing, I take them on the gig and can't wait to get them off cause they aren't loud enough or I can't play in time.

It's the same routine over and over and over.

Something new comes out, I try it, I love it, I hate it...I'm back to Spiros. Everyone talks about Guts here, I try them again, I love them, I hate them, I end up back with Spiros. I wish I could practice with Belcantos, play jazz gigs with guts, and rock gigs with spiros.

I wish you'd just stop all this crap!

You turned me on to Spiros a while back and I fought through the first few weeks and now can't get enough of them. The Eudoxa and Olivs are just rotting away in a draw somewhere...

I kinda like how the spiros sound with the bow now that they've mellowed out....

 

[Uncletoad]

I wish you'd just stop all this crap!

You turned me on to Spiros a while back and I fought through the first few weeks and now can't get enough of them. The Eudoxa and Olivs are just rotting away in a draw somewhere...

I kinda like how the spiros sound with the bow now that they've mellowed out....

My own personal torment. Still wearing spiros. Let's let the gut lovefest continue without these metal disturbances. I'm not one of them anymore. I should shut up.

 

[Mark Perna]

Oh yeah.... the other thing I've noticed is that good left hand shape helps a lot in getting the most out of guts. Thinking of that "fingertips as pistons, pushing the string down into the wood" idea really does the trick (forgot who described it that way). Flat fingers.... not so much.

LaFaro was a flat finger guy. Watch the video; his left hand fingers are almost straight. I've gone back and forth using "correct" hand position and trying the LaFaro approach. I get a slightly more focussed sound with the "correct" approach and a slightly fatter sound going flat fingered. I can play fast with either method and I don't really find much of difference with volume produced.

However, and this is a big however, I don't squeeze with my left hand. I use arm weight to depress the strings. If I were squeezing, the flat fingered approach probably wouldn't work very well. When I feel like I'm starting to squeeze with my left hand (which is a temptation with gut as they are so easy to depress), I practice playing without my left thumb touching the back of the neck until I get the feeling of playing without needing to squeeze back. I think most of the volume attributable to my left hand comes from the finger anchored on the string with the left arm weight adding a bunch of mass to the system.

mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

LaFaro was a flat finger guy.

I know.... as soon as I pushed "submit reply" on my last post, I thought of that vid. Scott's fingers were all over the place. I guess if you shot a vid of me at work tonight, you would see a little of both approaches. I'm not very disciplined.

Maybe it's just that I get more pleasure out of pushing down into these guts (more like pulling, actually, if you think about the physics of it). The thought of digging into those Spiro Weichs with my fingertips seems kind of alien to me now.

I do that same thing with the no squeezing. The guts really facilitate that for me. Just the lightness of both hands, in relation to the payback, is pretty intoxicating. Maybe you and me, we're brothers from two different mothers. We seem to be on the same page on a whole bunch of stuff.

 

[Mark Perna]

Maybe you and me, we're brothers from two different mothers. We seem to be on the same page on a whole bunch of stuff.

I think you may be right. Bro.

mark

 

[Uncletoad]

Jesus. You guys bring out the lube and I'm leaving.

 

[Mark Perna]

Jesus. You guys bring out the lube and I'm leaving.

I have numerous responses but all would get me banned....

mark

 

[Uncletoad]

I have numerous responses but all would get me banned....

mark

Damn. It's a good setup line. Take a swing.

 

[Mark Perna]

Actually, that was all I had.

mark

 

[Uncletoad]

Actually, that was all I had.

mark

Guess you'll be needing that lube afterall.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

More into baby powder these days.

 

[Uncletoad]

There ya go Mark. From the master. A badum ching for Marcus and the next round on the fat guy.

 

[Treyzer]

I Knew it would sooner or later move to the bass part of our personalities!

I've almost pulled the trigger on ordering gamuts about 3 times so far and for whatever reason, something has stopped me. Thought I might ease into it by ordering an Olive G & D but then had a the brilliant idea of actually asking a few people about the difference in diameter between what I currently use Spiros, and guts.
The consensus was that I would have to get someone (a luthier) to work on the nut and bridge before the strings would work. Since we have no luthiers on this island, and the last time i tried to do any woodwork of any kind friends took the tools out of my hands, laughing all the way, I decided now is not the time to try this.

BTW, I'm pretty happy with my current sound. I'm not really searching that hard. I would like a little more something in the upper register so i think i'll give Animas a try and see where this little experiment leads.

've always thought it was funny when someone listens to a great bassist and immediately asks, "what strings does he use?" Although it is important, it sure is not as important as his hands, his mind, his soul and of course, his technique.

All the Best Guys..

 

[john allemond]

If I may add my .02 cents. I grew up on guts on Kay basses, as a young bluegrass musician. Thats the only sound I knew. When I fiirst heard jazz, it was the same sound, but more notes. So later in life, I wanted the sound I heard as a young person. Since I came back to the upright, or double bass, and tried to get the sound I heard 35 years ago. Started with weichs, then corellis, then animas, about to go to all guts. But put weichs on in the mean time, and with a band with drums, its like why bother with other strings? I have sustain, depth, and no tuning problems. For what its worth. john