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Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part II)

#161
Played a big, noisy room at the opening party of the Maui Film Fest last night. It was a good opportunity to see how the Gamuts cut through a big pile of sonic slop. There sometimes seems to be a contention that Spiros are better in that situation. If you can pardon the zeal of the relatively recently converted :D, I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint, and some rambling musings.

I played lots of rooms similar to this one on Spiros for many years. Their big midrange and growl does seem to add a lot of clarity in a noisy situation at times.

However, the guts seem to bring a different element to the table. Part of the appeal of playing them for me is that whole "support from the bottom up" sound... the unmistakable "ping" at the front, followed by the big bloom of warm bass tone. For me, that buoyant bounce and percussive presence really works well in a noisy room. It's less a matter of "cutting through", and more a sense of "lifting up" the music. These particular strings still have a remarkable level of singing qualities for the solo sections, but it's really fun for me to lock in with a sensitive drummer and other listening acoustic musicians with these strings. I don't get the sense that anyone is having a hard time hearing me, as people are responding positively to things that I play.

I'm in no way negating the undeniable appeal of Spiros or other steel/hybrids. For me, the guts work as least as well in a sometimes difficult sonic situation.
 
#162
Marcus Johnson said:
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However, the guts seem to bring a different element to the table. Part of the appeal of playing them for me is that whole "support from the bottom up" sound... the unmistakable "ping" at the front, followed by the big bloom of warm bass tone. For me, that buoyant bounce and percussive presence really works well in a noisy room. It's less a matter of "cutting through", and more a sense of "lifting up" the music. These particular strings still have a remarkable level of singing qualities for the solo sections, but it's really fun for me to lock in with a sensitive drummer and other listening acoustic musicians with these strings. I don't get the sense that anyone is having a hard time hearing me, as people are responding positively to things that I play.
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I felt that way too when I was using them. To this day Spirocores and Guts are my favorite strings. Specifically the Gamut top strings. They have something that I haven't found in any other plain gut.
 
#164
Just jumping in to agree (what a surprise!). There's a thread on here on how to hear yourself better. My answer was to switch to guts. I don't have problems hearing myself anymore even if I'm playing unamped with drums (granted I'm not a huge presence in that situation but I can still hear myself). The sound just lives in it's own sonic space. It doesn't need to cut through the sonic crowd of other instruments; it just slips underneath it.

Guts have really changed my life.

mark
 
#166
As far as Gamut's and Dlugoleck's (the plain ones), I have both but on different basses, so a true fair comparison may not be prudent coming from me until I've had both on the same bass. However, I can see, feel, and hear many similarities in both pairs. They are both very high-quality string makers.

I get that nice "ping" Marcus speaks of from both sets and I honestly don't know how old they are. I got them both gently used from fellow members.

Thomas
 
#167
Since this is looking like a gut megathread, I thought I'd join in.
Yesterday I fitted a plain gut D and G (E and A are the Spiro mittels I had on already). The guts are NOS "Handcraft" brand - the packaging suggests they're foreign (probably European?) packaged by a British distributor, so I've no idea who they were made by. I picked them up cheaply on eBay just to check them out.
I have my adjusters set so it's around 7.5mm on the G and 10mm on the E at the board end, as any higher is uncomfortable on the Spiro E and A. If I do decide to stick with the guts, I'll be looking for lower tension E and A.
I love the G for pizz, but the D is super thumpy anwhere above the G. Does this get any better with guts as they settle in? And I find arco is not too difficult (well, as easy as the Spiros anyway!) but somewhat dry and raspy in the PC manner. Are some guts better than others Arco, or is this just how arco gut sounds?
 
#168
Martin Beer said:
I love the G for pizz, but the D is super thumpy anwhere above the G. Does this get any better with guts as they settle in? And I find arco is not too difficult (well, as easy as the Spiros anyway!) but somewhat dry and raspy in the PC manner. Are some guts better than others Arco, or is this just how arco gut sounds?
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I guess the thumpy D depends on the string and the bass. That was my previous experience on many basses, usually ply basses with low-mid priced guts. The Gamuts on my NS La Scala.... that's another story altogether. The D is very clear all the way up the fingerboard. Your D string may get better at it settles in on your bass.

That dry and raspy sound is characteristic of bowed guts in some cases. Again, it's minimal on Gamuts on my bass, although it can be exaggerated if I'm using a pickup (this is "jazz arco"). Unamplified or with a mic, it's much less strident. I'm sure that a more proficient arco player than myself would be a lot more successful at pulling some real beauty out of them. The things that really help me a lot when bowing guts are; a light touch, relatively quick bow speed, and as little rosin as possible. Another thing that I noticed is that, over time, the gut arco sound starting sounding "normal" to me... I guess my ear adjusted to its unique character, and now it's really pleasing to me as a player.
 
#169
My experience with guts are exclusively with Gamuts so I don't know how much of this translates to other brands. I've put 3 or 4 new Gamut Ds on my basses. Everyone of them (Lyon or Pistoy) started out thumpy. Everyone of them got MUCH more defined as they stretched out. With the Gamuts, there was a noticeable day to day improvement in definition that seemed to taper off after about 3 weeks as the string stabilized.

mark
 
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#170
My set E & A are SILVER WOUND GUT and only D & G are plain gut! Clef gut is gut all the way!!! Chorda is a little manipulated so they not thick like tree trunks! Chorda is the closest to the real thing! I went from real gut to chorda but now I use garbos, to me real gut was the best sound-wise but I hated the high action, with chorda I loved the lower action but wasn't too happy about the E&A thumpyness but still very nice, garbos are on trial and happy with them so far although thinking of changing D&G back to gut. Nightmare! my other bass strung with Animas and have no probs with it! Anyway Of course they Gut but technically the silverwound will put it in bit of a hybrid category in my eyes! Just an opinion. T.

thebassbass said:
Pirastro chordas are 100% real gut, not close to gut they are gut.
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QUOTE=bassbuddie;9263788]I thought that Pirastro Chorda were plain Gut?[/QUOTE]
 
#171
I didn't mean to offend our Chorda String EXPERT here as I had no idea that Pirastro makes Plain Gut Strings specially for him!!! You are in deed lucky mate because on my set E & A are SILVER WOUND GUT and only D & G are plain gut! Clef gut is gut all the way!!! Chorda is manipulated so they not thick like tree trunks! Do your research first or buy a set like me! Chorda is the closest to the real thing!
thebassbass said:
Pirastro chordas are 100% real gut, not close to gut they are gut.
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#172
Uncletoad said:
I felt that way too when I was using them. To this day Spirocores and Guts are my favorite strings. Specifically the Gamut top strings. They have something that I haven't found in any other plain gut.
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I would really appreciate if you could share your experience with those Gamut strings!! I also love Spiros and used gut of various brand on top but I am intrigued how many people love those Gamut strings!! When I had a look at their site I found that there is Lyon and Pistoy strings! Also they varnished and polished with oil? Would bow still work on that or purely for pizz???? Also in your experience Lyons or Pistoy would work best???? I have ZERO idea about Gamust but just adore that combination Spiros with guts! Thanks Uncletoad!:hyper:
 
#174
timobee4 said:
I would really appreciate if you could share your experience with those Gamut strings!! I also love Spiros and used gut of various brand on top but I am intrigued how many people love those Gamut strings!! When I had a look at their site I found that there is Lyon and Pistoy strings! Also they varnished and polished with oil? Would bow still work on that or purely for pizz???? Also in your experience Lyons or Pistoy would work best???? I have ZERO idea about Gamust but just adore that combination Spiros with guts! Thanks Uncletoad!:hyper:
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Click this link. This thread should take you awhile to get through. It took over a year I think. That's what I know about Gamut Gut strings
 
#176
Agree 100% on the bowing issue on steel! Although there are some Hungarian Gypsy upright player doing the umpa umpa on guts! When I started out on double bass (in Budapest) at around 12 and a half my dad took me to a market and a Gypsy bass player gave me a chunk of rosin he collected from the forest apparently, it was black and softer! Also his bow was weird I am sure he made it, but the way he was hacking that bass in half sounded loud and powerful! Nothing like Edgar Meyer but still great! Man that comment was funny about "I'm back to scaring children and cats again." :) But I am still not much closer about pairing spiros with lygon or pistoy lacquered or unlacquered, never mind I will find something I can work with but thanks!!!!
Uncletoad said:
I think arco sounds like crap on guts. Shell me if you want but I prefer the sound of the bow on steel.

Pizz is a whole nuther thing as I've said a lot.
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#177
When I buy another D and G to mix with steel at some point it will be a Gamut Lyon varnished medium G and a Gamut Pistoy varnished light D string like calivox. I think the medium G has the mojo and the pistoy light D avoids the thunk.

If you want to pair with spiros the E/A have to be really worn in or the mix is a drag.

They aren't as loud as steel spiros on the D/G, but they are different and in a mix they project in a different way.

I don't use them right now because I can't get what I want out of my bass from them. In my work with the bow they don't sound like I want my bass to.

That will most likely change again.
 

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