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Double Bass Gut strings - Buzzing

Gregmak

Gregmak

Oct 1, 2009
289
65
38
Toronto, Canada
#1
Hi guys,

I noticed that when I buy a new Gut string there is no buzzing, and the sound is really clean and punchy. After around 5-6 months I start getting a lot of buzzing. Does this mean I'm killing the strings and I need to change them? I sweat a lot which I know can kill strings. I have a feeling that the strings are stretching out and being too loose which is causing them to rattle. But I'm not sure. And I don't mean slight buzzing. Certain notes buzz so much that it becomes very annoying.

I had D & G Dlugolecki's, and both were buzzing like crazy. I switched the G to a new Chorda and all the buzzing is gone.

I really hope I don't have to change strings every 6 months and there's a way around it, otherwise I'm gonna break my bank :(

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Greg
 
#4
I clip the little hairs, and I actually use a very thin sandpaper to clean the string. It works wonders! But still getting the buzz.

This plastic wrap I'm guessing is not good for bowing though right? 50% of my playing is arco. If it wouldn't affect it I will definitely try them out.
 
#6
I dunno. My first gut experience was with Chordas Carlos. They were several years old when I got them thirdhand and I had them on three different basses over the course of four years. Never experienced buzzing that I couldn't attribute to a popped seam or an open crack.

Correct, the Tynex winding makes bowing nearly impossible. No grip. There is no magic bullet...
 
#7
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
I dunno. My first gut experience was with Chordas Carlos. They were several years old when I got them thirdhand and I had them on three different basses over the course of four years. Never experienced buzzing that I couldn't attribute to a popped seam or an open crack
Click to expand...
I played all brands from cheap to expensive, unplayed old to new out of the package and playing them everyday they always started buzzing (non-repair related) after several months, and that experience was corroborated by almost all the guys i knew/know who play them as well, Dennis Irwin, Joel Forbes, Wolfe. I'd love to hear from Carlos Henriquez if he's still around here
 
#10
I haven't noticed any buzzing on my gut D and G, but I did notice a strange sound tonight. A few days ago, I cleaned my Kay's fingerboard with a bit of isopropyl alcohol on an old t-shirt (it was really dirty) and oiled the strings with mineral oil. Tonight, I noticed that when I stopped the G string and played vibrato, I got a creaking sound which was very audible. Same thing on the D string. I've never noticed this before, and it happened all along the string (only when doing vibrato). The Anima E and A were fine. This isn't the buzzing sound you all are referring to, is it?
 
#12
I divide gut string noises into creaks, rattles, and buzzes. They're all annoying, but distinct in their causes.

Creaking can come from a freshly oiled board. Wipe as much oil off as possible, play on it for a while, and it should go away. Might take a few days, though.

I've dealt with rattles, especially on the low Eb and E natural on the D string, for 20+ years. What I've found is that, at least on those notes, it's seldom the fault of any "hairs" on the string, and it can happen with strings of any age. What does help is having the fingerboard dressed so that it's got a bit more relief in it (this is especially true if your bass had been set up for metal strings and you've gone to gut without any change in the fingerboard profile). Another thing that can help is adding just a little more tension by increasing the angle of the string over the bridge by stringing it "upside down," so that the knotted end of the string is on top of the tailpiece and the string then runs from under the tailpiece to the bridge. I add a little extra tension by putting a small dowel under the tailpiece and running the string under the dowel and then up to the bridge--this makes the angle over the bridge even steeper. I understand Dennis Irwin did something similar, but used a spool instead of a dowel.

For whatever reason, Tynex-wrapped strings are much less prone to this kind of rattling, even the lower-tension ones. But forget bowing on them. And the other problem is finding a Tynex string that matches the rest of the strings for tension and volume. How Charlie Haden got an even sound with Golden Spirals on the top and Spirocores on the bottom is a mystery to me.

This isn't to say that I haven't also had problems with buzzes from hairs on the string, but those problem notes on the low end of the D tend to be problems of setup rather than string wear.

Also, especially with Chordas, the fingerboard develops "train tracks" (grooves and lines at right angles to the string) after a few months. As these get deeper they can also cause buzzes, and they appear on the board even when the strings seem completely smooth. Oddly enough, the D and G are much harder on the fingerboard than the wound E and A. Only solution for that is to get the board dressed.

I've been through this with Damien's strings, with LaBellas, with Chordas (both the old regular guage and the Carlos H. set), and it's an ongoing battle.

It also helps to keep the strings oiled -- I use a very light coating of almond oil. I "paint" the string with a q-tip with a very small amount of oil on it, then lightly work it in with a tissue and wipe most of it off. In dry months, it keeps the strings from drying out, and it humid months it keeps the strings from developing hairs.
 
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#13
Sorry to bring this thread back to life.

Bill I just saw you response. Really detailed, thanks for that!
The problem I am experiencing however is buzzing in the middle of the fingerboard. Where F is on the G string, and Bb on the D string. That's the worse area for me.
Also recently, Both my D & G are fluctuating so much in pitch, that when I play in thumb position I hear 2 notes no matter which note I hit. It's pretty hilarious.

I guess it's time to change strings!
Also, just to note, its 45 Celsius here, and around 90% humidity. It's like this everyday for around 5-6 months. It's terrible.
 
#14
Hi Gregmak,

I have/had the same problem. I have a nice set of Pirastro Pizzicato. Sounding Lafaro great. WoW~! But all of a sudden de D-string started buzzing just the way you have described above. No influence of the seasons or whatsoever. It was clear to me that the string was no good but it wasn't broken.

I found the cause: the winding (round the gutcore) was no longer fixed. It looked fine but I could "rotate" the plating between my thumb and index finger. The G A and E were fixed (I felt resistance) and sounding healthy, but the D string was crap.

I am very that the webshop sends me a new one today.

Ik hope this check (of the winding) helps other players.

Regards, Wouter
 
#16
I haven't tried that myself, thanks lord my wound guts are ok but some folks here on talkbass say this can be solved by squeezing a lemon against the buzzing string. Not sure how long a string would last after such treatment but it's probably worth a try if you're gonna throw the string away anyhow

Cheers
 
#17
I have found that oil really doesn't do much ,,I think sanding strings dry helps more than anything, but make sure you sand at least a 1/3 of the string at a time or you will create thin spots which will also make the strings buzz, I start with 320grit if the string is really rough,,and progress 400,600,800,, you can really revive a gut string most of the time,,if they are really rough,try turning them over tie the knot in the other end ,
 
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#18
superman said:
I have found that oil really doesn't do much ,,I think sanding strings dry helps more than anything, but make sure you sand at least a 1/3 of the string at a time or you will create thin spots which will also make the strings buzz, I start with 320grit if the string is really rough,,and progress 400,600,800,, you can really revive a gut string most of the time,,if they are really rough,try turning them over tie the knot in the other end ,
Click to expand...

Occasionally I sand bad spots on the string, but I use a much finer grit--I get sheets of Micro-mesh, which start at around 1500 grit--I've used 1500 and 2400. But I'm not trying to revive an entire string in those cases -- just going after small trouble spots. But thanks to the ultrafine grit you can work on a very short section of the string without worrying about creating thin spots. If you were trying to revive a whole string with Micro-mesh it would take forever, and in those cases I'm sure superman's approach is the right one.

As for oil, I don't use it to revive a string -- I use it as maintenance so that I won't have to revive the string and I find it very effective. Years ago I used olive oil, but learned that it was slightly acidic and sped up string wear. For the past 16 years of so, I've been using almond oil, and apply it in very small amounts every few days nearly all year except for a few weeks in the spring and fall when the humidity is neither too damp or too dry. (I live in Connecticut--your climate, and mileage, may vary.)
 
#19
Gregmak said:
Sorry to bring this thread back to life.

Bill I just saw you response. Really detailed, thanks for that!
The problem I am experiencing however is buzzing in the middle of the fingerboard. Where F is on the G string, and Bb on the D string. That's the worse area for me.
Also recently, Both my D & G are fluctuating so much in pitch, that when I play in thumb position I hear 2 notes no matter which note I hit. It's pretty hilarious.

I guess it's time to change strings!
Also, just to note, its 45 Celsius here, and around 90% humidity. It's like this everyday for around 5-6 months. It's terrible.
Click to expand...

With that kind of heat and humidity, I'm sure strings wouldn't last nearly as long, although I think that a bit of light oiling would extend the life somewhat, as long as you start with the oiling routine when the strings are fairly new. Once they've developed some "frizzies" from the humidity, the oil isn't as helpful.

As for mid-fingerboard buzzing: despite all of my efforts to avoid buzzes, I have come to accept that a certain amount of buzzing on the D is almost inevitable further up the fingerboard (at least with less than ultra-high action), especially once you get up to that Bb or slightly above. Not too annoying on fast passages, but I find myself altering fingerings so that I'm spending more time on the G and less on the D when I'm playing slower. On the other hand, I usually find that a buzz up around the F on the G string usually means it's time for some cleanup work on the fingerboard, though sometimes it's just that the string's getting too old.
 
#20
I changed out my Spiracores for Eurosonic Lights so could play slap more and got serious buzz up by the nut on the E, A&D strings up to the 3rd note say G on E string & i seemed to have fixed it by jamming cardboard from a match pack between the string & nut, but it's no longer working & now getting worse buzzing.. It has got a bit colder here in SoCal , im Wondering if the bridge needs to be 'Scoshed' back towards neck a hair or some wood shims added to nut? These Eurosonics are supposed to be 'Gut Like' i haven't been able to afford the real deal yet! some day I'll put guts on Thnx! JP
 

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