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Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!

#321
I have been SO through the back and forth with steel and gut (and everything in between) that it's not even funny. At times I've had two basses, one with each. This can be a good way to go, but it's a bit of a different approach in terms of developing your sound and technique, and it can be counter-productive going back and forth. (but maybe not for everyone)

I thoroughly enjoy playing arco, but despite my fantasies otherwise, I've never really developed it as a professional skill. Arco friendliness was one of the main reasons that I would use steel. While I often like the Spiro pizz sound, gut is the sound that I've always been most attracted to, and it suits the styles of music that I do most of my gigging with. I bought a cello (strung with Evah Pirazzis) to act out my arco fantasies, and to tell you the truth, I like the voice of the cello even more for arco. If I can ever get to where I can decently play cello either live or in the studio, I'll die a happy man. For bass, I can still bow enough on my Gamuts for intonation practice, etc.

I love gut strings! I practice and play more, and I enjoy it more. Also, I've finally got a bass that really is suited to gut -- "Irmgard", my blonde, German, Jacobus Horsteiner bass. It's got a big, loud sound that works great. Some the other basses I had (Shen, Strunal, some Kays) often sounded better with steels, they were clearer, louder and more responsive. I think it takes a better bass to make guts work, to decrease the frustrating "thud factor", and to get some tone happening. After I found this bass last fall, I had a new bridge with no adjusters made, strung it with a full set of Gamuts, and I haven't once thought about switching. Of course knowing me, that could change :rollno: , but so far so good!
 
#322
It's a tough decision and I know it well. I love the way the guts sound and feel, for the most part. I love that I can sound like my heros. I love their organic quality, even the way they look on the bass. I love how they make me want to play all the time and noodle and experiment. That's a lot of positives. But what I don't like is sounding too wide in the mix and not quite pointed. I did not like playing grooves as much though I loved, LOVED, walking them. I had the guts on and was feeling rather torn. I did a few gigs where I didn't really like they way they were sitting in the mix. Then I gotta a call to play with a top notch player that I'll be touring with in a month (we had never met) and OFF CAME THE GUTS! I just didn't feel like I could rely enough on the sound I was going to get and I wanted the guy to really hear me correctly. That was it really. I just, deep down, didn't feel that they were giving me the best chance to be heard at my best. The gig went great and I had to bow some very complicated things in the upper positions which cut through brilliantly with the Spiros and I went home relieved. The guy even mentioned afterwards what a beautiful tone I have. Hard to put this all together when I love listening to gut players so much. It gets down to a difference between what I listen to and what I play. If I was doing the 50's-60's jazz thing then guts would be THE sound. But I'm not. Spiros are a better general solution for what I need to do on the bass. Kind of a bummer....I loved playing Waltz for Debby for two hours straight in the practice room.
 
#323
O
Bobby King said:
I have been SO through the back and forth with steel and gut (and everything in between) that it's not even funny. At times I've had two basses, one with each. This can be a good way to go, but it's a bit of a different approach
Click to expand...

Yeah, that didnt work for me, a month ago I have sold my hybrid bass for one reason, although it was an old beautifully sounding bass strung with Spirocore Mittels the tonal quality was so different from the carved bass strung with guts that I found myself like a thirsty donley between two buckets of water unable to choose :) plus there is no 2 bass with the same characteristics and I thought becoming one with the instrument is only possible if there is only one. Silly maybe but worked for me. Hey I just thought of an 8 string bass 2 of everything!
That way I can have the same bass strung with a set of gut and a set of Spiros.:)
 
#325
fingers said:
Though if someone told me it was going to take 2 months to get to this point I would have thought twice. Too late now.
Click to expand...

Ha! I did tell you. Over and over. You just didn't believe me which, it turns out, is good for you because you probably would have bailed. It takes a while to really internalize the touch and get the sound in your head. Once you have it though, you can't imagine going back to steel. At least, I can't.

It took me about 3 months before I felt like it was part of me and I didn't have to think about it anymore and I stopped tripping over myself when trying to execute tricky patterns. After two full years of being steel-free (or it will be in mid-March), I just think "gut" now.

My technical ability jumped when I went to gut but I attribute it more to the insane amount of practicing I did to get up to speed on the guts rather than anything inherent in the guts. Although, once I got used it, the lower tension does seem to facilitate in the playing of technically demanding passages.

mark
 
#326
Mark has dished out some very good advice here for the gut tempted and gut challenged. I know he helped me immensely, though I didn't stick with them. I played guts for many, many years, even in New Orleans with 95% humidity. Over time they sort of self-focus. They, in a way, begin to sound less gut with time, but what is gained is more clarity. I simply didn't have that kind of time on my hands.
 
#328
put my gamut & super silver combo on last summer...which got a bit hairy with all of the humidity..was a tough summer to try and make the transition to gut.
This winter, in chicago...things have stayed nice and dry and these strings are a joy. Doing a 2 month tour this spring, and I'm a bit apprehensive about the humidity I might encounter in the south and west coast!! Think I'm gonna just stick it out and deal with it, cuz I love how they sound so much.
 
#329
OK, my mediocrity is just at the level that I welcome you all to listen to me on guts.
http://www.webfilehost.com/?mode=viewupload&id=4541235

Round Midnight duet with Tenor from last night.
This is also my first attempt to put an mp3 out on these interwebs so please bear with me. Click download and go to the bottom of the page for status.

FWIW, this was into my GK MB200/lunchbox and recorded on an H2.
 
#331
Beautiful! Nice big fat sound. I love playing sax/bass duets. If you're comfortable with the saxophonist, you can take things just about anywhere and bring it back without anyone getting hurt.

If you want to get a little speed or more clarity in a line with gut strings here's a tip that took me a while to figure out but has worked for me. With your right hand, curl your pinky and ring finger into your palm as if you were holding a matchbook between the fingertips and the palm and then pluck with the very ends of the fingertips of your first two fingers. Curling your last two fingers seems to allow for a more explosive pluck with the first two fingers that I can't get with my last two fingers straight. Plucking with the very ends of the fingers (which would sound cruddy on a steel strings) creates as defined a tone as you can get out of gut.

It works well for funk, solo lines you want to stand out, fast passages (because you have less finger on the string and you don't get bogged down as much in the slower to respond gut string). Mix it up with more traditional side of the first finger plucking, plucking down through the strings and 2 fingers together plucking and it gives you another color to add to your arsenal.

mark
 
#332
Marc, most of my gigs are without a drummer. There are surely pros and cons, but it's really made me work on my time. Also, that's a major reason for going gut. I have had to develop that solid pulse to keep the music going forward and steel just wasn't laying the foundation.

And Mark, I have seen you talk about that right hand technique and it has been something I've worked on. Moving up on the fingerboard with the fingers more perpendicular to the strings does give a lot of definition and allows for speed.

James and I didn't expect that tune to be a duo, but the guitar player bailed at the last second so we just did it. My favorite stuff is duo. Bass and anything else. :D

Thanks for the kind words.
 
#333
clink said:
Marc, most of my gigs are without a drummer. There are surely pros and cons, but it's really made me work on my time. Also, that's a major reason for going gut. I have had to develop that solid pulse to keep the music going forward and steel just wasn't laying the foundation.
Click to expand...

I have a singer I play with regularly and most of those gigs are drummerless. While I really like the pulse that gut adds I still do occasionally miss the sustain of steels especially on ballads, I absolutely love playing ballads and that is the last place I am still trying to 'find a voice' with gut. I find myself being more rhythmic with the gut thing and one of the things I really love about playing ballads is being more oblique with how I play time (rather than humping away) and more melodic in my lines. It's getting there.
 
#335
Hey gents, long time reader first time poster here.

I've been thinking about guts for a long time. I've always been into a more old school sound. I've used obligatos and animas a lot in the past, but the last year or so i've been playing evah pirazzi regulars. I like the sound for the variety i do, but the tension seems to be causing long term effects on my body, even with my newly lowered action (i've recently been jumping into the trad slap fold, which seems impossible on evah regs).

anyhow,

I don't have money for a full Gamut set, so i was wondering if anybody has tried Gamut G/D with Evah regular E/A?
I like the idea of using a velvet E/A too, but the checkbook says two strings at a time.

Thanks in advance for any input. It's great to see the same indecision and concerns about sheep intestine.
PS
(Marcus Johnson- your past posts on evahs were very informative when i made the switch a year ago, and as well with the gamuts now. Thanks)
 
#337
From those two i'd say the gamuts with the velvets. Before i changed to all gut i played the velvets with a gut d&g and IMHO they mix perfectly
 
#339
kane612 said:
I don't have money for a full Gamut set, so i was wondering if anybody has tried Gamut G/D with Evah regular E/A?
I like the idea of using a velvet E/A too, but the checkbook says two strings at a time.
Click to expand...

I did the Gamut/Evah mix you speak of and didn't like it. The tension difference was really hard to get used to. Now I'm doing Anima/Gamut and am much happier.
 

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