Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!

[Marcus Johnson]

Red Clay Jazz Fest, Saturday night at Kauai Lagoooooons. Rained like crazy and the air was heavy, so the Spiros were a good thing for that situation. Sorry I missed you and Sara!

 

[ElMon]

Into my second month of gigging (about 10 gigs so far) on my new Upton Standard 5 string strung with a full set of Gamut guts. Unwound G/D, wound A/E/B string, and tension matched at 18kg.

Sonically and feel wise, I couldn't possibly be happier. Incredible old school thump but with more sustain than the Lenzner/assorted other gut strings I've tried. In particular the D and G strings are just massive sounding and notes in thumb position just have an inimitable singing quality to them that I just couldn't live with out. And despite what you might think, Dan made a Low B that is massive sounding, not floppy at all and with great pitch clarity up to the octave.

But........and this is becoming a HUGE but for me......

The wound strings won't stay in tune for more than a song. Part of this is that I'm playing them in Oklahoma in the summer, which depending on the rainfall is either incredibly dry and hot or muggy and miserable. I did a good amount of stretching when I first got this bass, playing it every day and repeatedly tuning it back up to pitch. And still....I have to tune after every single tune or during drum solos.

Now I'm kind of on the fence.

Do I

A) suck it up and realize it's worth it for 'that' sound

B) Ditch the wound strings and compromise with some Velvet Anima/Garbos on the lower three strings

C) abandon the experiment and compromise with Garbos.

I"m leaning more towards option A right now, but am curious to hear from you fine folks who mix Velvet strings with Gamut(or any guy) D and G strings. Does the tension difference take some serious adjustments?

How close is the tone of the Garbos vs the Animas to actual gut? And that last question ties in to option C. I had a full set of both Garbos and Animas on my now-gone BSX Allegro EUB, and while I found a lot of 'gutness' in those strings on that bass, I'm wondering if the same qualities translate to a real acoustic bass?

 

[Uncletoad]

Nothing sounds like actual gut. Nothing stays in tune like gut either, everything else is better.

I ended my gut experiments in the Summer in Ohio for similar reasons.

Even the Gut core Oliv D/G I use have tuning issues. If it weren't for steel bottoms I'd be in hell.

Pick your poison.

 

[ElMon]

Nothing sounds like actual gut. Nothing stays in tune like gut either, everything else is better.

I ended my gut experiments in the Summer in Ohio for similar reasons.

Even the Gut core Oliv D/G I use have tuning issues. If it weren't for steel bottoms I'd be in hell.

Pick your poison.

So far my bandleaders have been patient and don't mind there being extra time between songs. I"m waiting for that gig where that won't be an option. Where I go to hit a low A and it suddenly becomes a G#. I've got family in Indiana so I imagine that Ohio is equally humid in the Summers.

 

[Uncletoad]

So far my bandleaders have been patient and don't mind there being extra time between songs. I"m waiting for that gig where that won't be an option. Where I go to hit a low A and it suddenly becomes a G#. I've got family in Indiana so I imagine that Ohio is equally humid in the Summers.

It's all over the place. Sometimes hot and humid others cooler by 20 or 30 deg...For whatever reason I play outside during the summer more than in which makes it that much worse. I dunno how the other midwest cats make it work...and they do.

 

[SAlcott]

I went through this last summer (NYC) with G/D plain and A/E wound-went to G/D gut and anima A/E, then to all Animas. Try going from street to subway platform (+20 degrees/+30% humidity) to hyper airconditioned subway car, back to street, to gig where the A/C goes on and off randomly, producing 20 degree temp change. The kicker was not being to stay in tune on a session I was paying for. I ended up using BG, which (luckily) turned out to be the right sound anyway. It's very frustrating; the gut sound is what I prefer, but they're just not practical for a gigger who has to deal with weather, indoors and out.

 

[ElMon]

I went through this last summer (NYC) with G/D plain and A/E wound-went to G/D gut and anima A/E, then to all Animas. Try going from street to subway platform (+20 degrees/+30% humidity) to hyper airconditioned subway car, back to street, to gig where the A/C goes on and off randomly, producing 20 degree temp change. The kicker was not being to stay in tune on a session I was paying for. I ended up using BG, which (luckily) turned out to be the right sound anyway. It's very frustrating; the gut sound is what I prefer, but they're just not practical for a gigger who has to deal with weather, indoors and out.

This is where I forsee myself being in a while. Garbos might just be a nice compromise. Still going to tough it out through the winter months to see how they respond to that particular temperature extreme.

 

[Rebop]

I couldn't handle real guts with my tropical/caribbean climate so I've been using the synthetic cordes lambert strings with very good results. Granted, I play really loud bar gigs and festivals most of the time so I only need the tone to be 'close' to the real stuff (and they are surprisingly close). I love guts, but playing outside in Florida during the summer is trouble. The Lamberts are cheap enough that just getting a set to try wouldn't kill your wallet (and if you hate 'em, someone like me will buy them off you in the classifieds section).

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I have the tropical thing here, but prolly less humidity than Rebop? I dunno. I've become adept at tuning on the fly. I do it because that's the sound and feel I want. ElMon.... it does not seem that the wound lowers ever really become "stable". That's just the hard truth. Even weirder is that the plain guts and the wound guts often go in two different directions, pitchwise.

To me, it's not even a choice, because that's the sound in my head and my heart, and I live with the gut string foibles. I have found that the more you play the bass, the less they seem to fluctuate. The guts kind of actually force you to stay into the bass a bunch, and they punish you a little if you don't. That's a good thing in my mind. If you can play the bass during the day, and then allow some adjustment time before a gig, it's not too bad.

I can understand your feelings; having another wound gut string down there has got to be a lot of tuning.

 

[ElMon]

I have the tropical thing here, but prolly less humidity than Rebop? I dunno. I've become adept at tuning on the fly. I do it because that's the sound and feel I want. ElMon.... it does not seem that the wound lowers ever really become "stable". That's just the hard truth. Even weirder is that the plain guts and the wound guts often go in two different directions, pitchwise.

To me, it's not even a choice, because that's the sound in my head and my heart, and I live with the gut string foibles. I have found that the more you play the bass, the less they seem to fluctuate. The guts kind of actually force you to stay into the bass a bunch, and they punish you a little if you don't. That's a good thing in my mind. If you can play the bass during the day, and then allow some adjustment time before a gig, it's not too bad.

I can understand your feelings; having another wound gut string down there has got to be a lot of tuning.

Words of wisdom. I"m going to stick it out, because the tone is just SO much better for me. I played about 100 gigs on my old and now-gone gut-strung 52' Kay, so to me steels are the strings that feel alien and unnatural. Don't know if I can go back. I think your idea of getting to the gig a little earlier to warm the entire bass up is right on. I'm gonna stick it out if I can!!!

 

[AMJBASS]

In Ontario there is a lot of temperature fluctuation. And the humidity is up and down as well. I love the gut sound/feel, but for jobbing gigs around town it just becomes a bit much with the tuning. On my plywood I put on a set of those kevlar core weedwackers and they get surprisingly close in tone and don't go out of tune. But they don't hold a candle to Gamuts. I'll probably bring that bass on tour with me this august when we go through Oklahoma and Texas...

 

[ElMon]

In Ontario there is a lot of temperature fluctuation. And the humidity is up and down as well. I love the gut sound/feel, but for jobbing gigs around town it just becomes a bit much with the tuning. On my plywood I put on a set of those kevlar core weedwackers and they get surprisingly close in tone and don't go out of tune. But they don't hold a candle to Gamuts. I'll probably bring that bass on tour with me this august when we go through Oklahoma and Texas...

On a side note, definitely let us Okies and Texans know when you're coming through. Love to hear a fellow TB'er!

 

[Mark Perna]

The tuning fluctuations of wrapped gut never bothered me in the summer. They mostly went flat which meant tuning up and putting more pressure on the top plate. It made the bass sound even better. And after a while you learn to compensate for the tuning. I plugged my tuner into the effects out on my amp and just left it turned on. I could tune on the fly even during a tune just by glancing down at it whenever I hit an open string.

I gave up on wrapped gut during the winter when they would go insanely sharp. Tuning them down took pressure off the top plate and, after a while, the bass started to sound like a wash tub bass. I had to go with something more stable. Both Garbos and Animas work great for E and A. Garbos are a little more gut like. Animas bow better. I like Animas a little better myself.

Mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I've never owned a tuner. I suppose I should get one. I still trust my ears, but who knows how long that will last? LOL

 

[ElMon]

The tuning fluctuations of wrapped gut never bothered me in the summer. They mostly went flat which meant tuning up and putting more pressure on the top plate. It made the bass sound even better. And after a while you learn to compensate for the tuning. I plugged my tuner into the effects out on my amp and just left it turned on. I could tune on the fly even during a tune just by glancing down at it whenever I hit an open string.

I gave up on wrapped gut during the winter when they would go insanely sharp. Tuning them down took pressure off the top plate and, after a while, the bass started to sound like a wash tub bass. I had to go with something more stable. Both Garbos and Animas work great for E and A. Garbos are a little more gut like. Animas bow better. I like Animas a little better myself.

Mark

I read your comments about the winter effect and worry about that too. The ONLY problem with leaving the tuner on all the time, for me, is that when I use my current setup (K&K Bass Max and Golden Bullet thru K&K pre) even a tiny bit of mic signal makes it to where the tuner won't pick any thing up bass wise, but goes nuts picking up everything else on the bandstand and in the venue. I have to turn the mic signal completely off if I want to tune. Still and option though.

 

[Rebop]

In Ontario there is a lot of temperature fluctuation. And the humidity is up and down as well. I love the gut sound/feel, but for jobbing gigs around town it just becomes a bit much with the tuning. On my plywood I put on a set of those kevlar core weedwackers and they get surprisingly close in tone and don't go out of tune. But they don't hold a candle to Gamuts. I'll probably bring that bass on tour with me this august when we go through Oklahoma and Texas...

Try Lamberts if you like the whackers but want gut. Supposedly the Lamberts are made in a similar way but with materials good for strings not cutting grass. They get closer tonally to real guts and have a frayed/twisted texture that's really, really close to the feel of a varnished set of guts.

That being said, I don't think there will ever really be a decent alternative to real guts.

 

[Mark Perna]

I read your comments about the winter effect and worry about that too. The ONLY problem with leaving the tuner on all the time, for me, is that when I use my current setup (K&K Bass Max and Golden Bullet thru K&K pre) even a tiny bit of mic signal makes it to where the tuner won't pick any thing up bass wise, but goes nuts picking up everything else on the bandstand and in the venue. I have to turn the mic signal completely off if I want to tune. Still and option though.

That's a drag. I use an Acoustic Image Focus with two channels. I run the tuner out of the pickup channel leaving the mic channel on it's own.

I run gut D/G with Anima A and E and the bass is almost as stable as with Spiros. Tune once at the beginning of the night and I generally don't have to worry about it before the end of the night. You do lose some of the old school sound but I'm totally digging the sound I get which is still gut but a little more modern sounding. I got very close to the old school sound with Garbo E/A and it was significantly more stable than wound gut. Wound gut does sound great though but I can't go through another Winter with them.

mark

 

[Mark Perna]

I've never owned a tuner. I suppose I should get one. I still trust my ears, but who knows how long that will last? LOL

I can't hear my bass that well when there's a bunch of noise on stage. It just takes a couple of seconds to look down and make sure the needle is between the two lines.

 

[ElMon]

That's a drag. I use an Acoustic Image Focus with two channels. I run the tuner out of the pickup channel leaving the mic channel on it's own.

I run gut D/G with Anima A and E and the bass is almost as stable as with Spiros. Tune once at the beginning of the night and I generally don't have to worry about it before the end of the night. You do lose some of the old school sound but I'm totally digging the sound I get which is still gut but a little more modern sounding. I got very close to the old school sound with Garbo E/A and it was significantly more stable than wound gut. Wound gut does sound great though but I can't go through another Winter with them.

mark

I may just end up with the blended set if I can't stick it out after this winter. After all it IS the D/G strings where I notice the 'gutness' the most. Either way I'm finding that just about everything that I've read from the esteemed and insightful bunch on the DB side has been largely true and uninflated by subjective bias: this gear journey as related to URB is tricky, often expensive, and the only way to gain wisdom is to jump in with your wallet and find out.

 

[arseniotall]

OLIV G.....where have you been all my life?
Just got one in the mail. I have read this entire thread. Thanks to all for their reviews. Im going to order the D just to see how it feels. I'm scared its going to be a little dead to me, but I want to atleast try two up top before going in another direction. Whats a good set to use if only a OLIV on top?