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Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!
- Thread starter Marc Piane
- Start date
Yes, thanks for re-posting. I also read the 1st version, and when I couldn't find it the next day I thought I had dreamed it.
!!! Well, at least I wish that it wasn`t on the nightmare side of things!A fellow finn Jean Sibelius threw one of his compositions in fire since he couldn`t bear the self-criticism, it`s hard to be a genius
The string keeps getting better day by day, but yes, the buzz is still there.
Thanks for your interest bskts, but it will take a little time, and I have to become a supporting member first ( which I should have done ages ago anyway, I do feel ashamed ). Anyway, you`re there on the other side of the planet and I`m here, there`s the customs and such between. There will be Evahs of both gauges, Corelli 380M`s, Spiro Red Mitchells and then Spiro, Garbo, wrapped and plain gut singles, nothing too exotic so to speak. I donated a bag of strings to Cuba some 2 years ago, my friend lives there now and told that there`s a very serious need. I thought that Cubans have given us tons of beautiful music with a deep cultural heritage for us to enjoy and study here, again, on the other side of the planet, so why not give back some while I wasn`t this broke at the time than I am now.
Reiska
Plain gut A progris report: Pizz tone getting better day by day. Played a duo gig with a tenor sax player yesterday, classics / easy standards ( I`m no virtuoso on the bass just yet ), big room with wooden floor and walls. Ended up playing with a country band in that same party since their bassist coundn`t make it there. All acoustic, I could hear myself all the time and I was heard too. In the duo setting there were times when I could have used more sustain, but then again the overall sound and feel is just not to be sacrificed. I`m very much still learning. In that country band setting, with 2 steel stringed acoustic guitars, mandolin, dobro and a cajon the gut string tone was more than one could hope for, just perfect! So far, it`s all still pretty weird, but when it`s good it`s just sooo good! Tomorrow a solo arco gig, may God have mercy on me!!!
), big room with wooden floor and walls. Ended up playing with a country band in that same party since their bassist coundn`t make it there. All acoustic, I could hear myself all the time and I was heard too. In the duo setting there were times when I could have used more sustain, but then again the overall sound and feel is just not to be sacrificed. I`m very much still learning. In that country band setting, with 2 steel stringed acoustic guitars, mandolin, dobro and a cajon the gut string tone was more than one could hope for, just perfect! So far, it`s all still pretty weird, but when it`s good it`s just sooo good! Tomorrow a solo arco gig, may God have mercy on me!!!Plain gut A still on my bass and still getting better, it`s amazing how long it takes to play this monster in. It`s still stretching, after beeing maintained twice in nearly 2 months it`s been on my bass. Pizz tone keeps getting better as the string settles and I learn more. I only swapped the E string from a Spiro solo to a E.P slap. I`ve played this setup in every sort of environment I`m involved, except big room / outdoor gig with big house PA system, and it does the job fine, pizz, arco and obviously, slap.
Guts in general, but especially plain guts, sustain in this magical manner that I find hard to explain. There`s this sort of glittering and sparkling in it, is this what is called " complexity of tone "? If so, it`s all over my pizz playing now, even when I`m a hack beginner in all of this
Overall tension of my bass feels weird now with E.P slap E. The G has the most tension, E is close to that and A has least. I`m not fast in my bass playing, or even try to be, but playing anything faster pizz on those lower strings is the biggest challenge for me. I have had to find waaaay different approaches for pizz, and especially on the lower strings. I need that relatively thin gauge ( 3.45mm!!! ) A for that magical sustain sound, but it gets thrown back at me in different set of difficulties. On the other hand, the minimal tension with the capability of producing huge tone is very addictive, as I have to look outside my reqular toolbox to be able to get the tone and the music out.
Intonation is a different animal too, and especially on my bass with a severe case of wolf on the A harmonic. Lots of arco and pizz intonation practise has been my recipe for this, and it`s fantastic how naturally my bass resonates when I`m succesfull in hitting the correct pitch, my bass tells me out loud if I`m playing in tune.
So far, I`m in this pretty deep and feel that I`ve found something I`m willing to be working on. Tone and feel is amazing. I might try a different E string at some point, Garbo or Garbo light propably. Anyhow, there`s no rush as the E.P slap does the job.
edit: Back to Spiro solo E. E.P slap is fine otherwise but I like Spiro more for arco playing. E.P slap lacks volume, colour and balls when comparing IMO.
Best, Reiska
Guts in general, but especially plain guts, sustain in this magical manner that I find hard to explain. There`s this sort of glittering and sparkling in it, is this what is called " complexity of tone "? If so, it`s all over my pizz playing now, even when I`m a hack beginner in all of this
Overall tension of my bass feels weird now with E.P slap E. The G has the most tension, E is close to that and A has least. I`m not fast in my bass playing, or even try to be, but playing anything faster pizz on those lower strings is the biggest challenge for me. I have had to find waaaay different approaches for pizz, and especially on the lower strings. I need that relatively thin gauge ( 3.45mm!!! ) A for that magical sustain sound, but it gets thrown back at me in different set of difficulties. On the other hand, the minimal tension with the capability of producing huge tone is very addictive, as I have to look outside my reqular toolbox to be able to get the tone and the music out.
Intonation is a different animal too, and especially on my bass with a severe case of wolf on the A harmonic. Lots of arco and pizz intonation practise has been my recipe for this, and it`s fantastic how naturally my bass resonates when I`m succesfull in hitting the correct pitch, my bass tells me out loud if I`m playing in tune.
So far, I`m in this pretty deep and feel that I`ve found something I`m willing to be working on. Tone and feel is amazing. I might try a different E string at some point, Garbo or Garbo light propably. Anyhow, there`s no rush as the E.P slap does the job.
edit: Back to Spiro solo E. E.P slap is fine otherwise but I like Spiro more for arco playing. E.P slap lacks volume, colour and balls when comparing IMO.
Best, Reiska
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Plain gut A progris riport finale: It`s a keeper. I switched the G to a 2,1mm weich gauge plain gut, and the E back to E.P slap, for even tension across the strings. That`s now great, with G at 10mm`s.
I remember reading here that plain gut A`s can`t produce sustaining notes, but only dead thump. I wonder if the posters tried one long and hard enough? I quess it`s the " weich " gauge that is needed for pizz sustain, with suitable pizz technique and especially correct intonation in the left hand. My take on this is that a plain gut A is everything that a plain gut D is, but there`s more of everything plain gut D. Less tension, fatter gauge, darker, thumpier, more percussive and as sustaining when played well ( I accidentally do that too at times, even me! ).
That monster Lenzner A is a unforgiving sadistic MF when it comes to technique. Playing anything faster pizz is a challenge, mostly because of the really low tension. Happy side is that I get lots of fundamental even with softer touch. Anyway, this has been the greatest challenge for me. Another issue is that the unbelieveably beautiful sustain comes only with correct intonation; I quess this has to do with Pythagoras and sympathetic resonance. My A string tells ME if I`m playing in tune, it won`t ring if my intonation is off. When I`m in tune, the bass just sings this beautiful sustain oscillation sound.
I feel that I`ve got a grip on playing plain guts only until when I switched to plain gut A, it`s been a challenging excursion into history, and sonical qualities of this beautiful instrument. Now I know how they behave, and now I know the direction I must go technique-wise with this setup. Plain gut ADG produces a tone and feel that no other combo does, and I`m loving it. I feel great to be able to write that this is the sound and feel, this is my bass and my sound! Now it`s all about learning to live with the bastard.
Thanks, Reiska
I remember reading here that plain gut A`s can`t produce sustaining notes, but only dead thump. I wonder if the posters tried one long and hard enough? I quess it`s the " weich " gauge that is needed for pizz sustain, with suitable pizz technique and especially correct intonation in the left hand. My take on this is that a plain gut A is everything that a plain gut D is, but there`s more of everything plain gut D. Less tension, fatter gauge, darker, thumpier, more percussive and as sustaining when played well ( I accidentally do that too at times, even me!
). That monster Lenzner A is a unforgiving sadistic MF when it comes to technique. Playing anything faster pizz is a challenge, mostly because of the really low tension. Happy side is that I get lots of fundamental even with softer touch. Anyway, this has been the greatest challenge for me. Another issue is that the unbelieveably beautiful sustain comes only with correct intonation; I quess this has to do with Pythagoras and sympathetic resonance. My A string tells ME if I`m playing in tune, it won`t ring if my intonation is off. When I`m in tune, the bass just sings this beautiful sustain oscillation sound.
I feel that I`ve got a grip on playing plain guts only until when I switched to plain gut A, it`s been a challenging excursion into history, and sonical qualities of this beautiful instrument. Now I know how they behave, and now I know the direction I must go technique-wise with this setup. Plain gut ADG produces a tone and feel that no other combo does, and I`m loving it. I feel great to be able to write that this is the sound and feel, this is my bass and my sound! Now it`s all about learning to live with the bastard.
Thanks, Reiska
I`m back after a couple of months after destroying my right hand. I went for higher tension strings set lower and ended up with Garbos on top of Evah w E and started building my pizz technique to a more relaxed one. E.P / Garbos combo sounded and played really nice pizz, but I was missing the bowability and added a plain gut G. Today, after listening to some recorded rehearsals I decided to go to plain guts on top of Evah weichs.
Those guts of mine are wild ones, originally nylon wrapped Pirastro Pizzicatos. The G started to unravel in the pegbox, which I fixed simply by wrapping basic office tape on and giving it some heat from a lighter. A couple of weeks ago I decided to strip the nylon wrapping off both strings, hated it anyway, and results are great. The monster gauges and tension became more standard, pizz and especially shifting feel a lot better, and arco became possible.
I reshaped my bridge while trying different stuff, and now I have my strings at pretty relaxed heights ( a carved bass with 42" mensure ), G and D are at -+ 8mm`s and Evah w AE both at 10mm`s. Had to file the the D slot a little lower and wider today for the still pretty fat D string, it looks almost as fat as my Lenzner plain A, for the bowability of the A string.
Feels and sounds just great. I`m happy with my new approach of higher tension AE strings ( compared to plain GDA / E.P slap, downtuned solo Spiro or Garbo light E I had before, really low tension / high setup ). Those Pirastro guts are still a lot stiffer than any guts I`ve tried before, and I think it works really well when combined with higher tension low strings and more reasonable string height. All this makes playing pizz easier for me, and I`m happy I started looking elsewhere when my right hand started showing worrying signs.
Anyway, can`t help it, I just love the tone and feel!!!
Those guts of mine are wild ones, originally nylon wrapped Pirastro Pizzicatos. The G started to unravel in the pegbox, which I fixed simply by wrapping basic office tape on and giving it some heat from a lighter. A couple of weeks ago I decided to strip the nylon wrapping off both strings, hated it anyway, and results are great. The monster gauges and tension became more standard, pizz and especially shifting feel a lot better, and arco became possible.
I reshaped my bridge while trying different stuff, and now I have my strings at pretty relaxed heights ( a carved bass with 42" mensure ), G and D are at -+ 8mm`s and Evah w AE both at 10mm`s. Had to file the the D slot a little lower and wider today for the still pretty fat D string, it looks almost as fat as my Lenzner plain A, for the bowability of the A string.
Feels and sounds just great. I`m happy with my new approach of higher tension AE strings ( compared to plain GDA / E.P slap, downtuned solo Spiro or Garbo light E I had before, really low tension / high setup ). Those Pirastro guts are still a lot stiffer than any guts I`ve tried before, and I think it works really well when combined with higher tension low strings and more reasonable string height. All this makes playing pizz easier for me, and I`m happy I started looking elsewhere when my right hand started showing worrying signs.
Anyway, can`t help it, I just love the tone and feel!!!
Going back today. My goldenslaps are nice, clear strings without any hassel but I miss that sweet gut tone and guts were a lot louder on my bass. I'll deal with the maintenance for the feel and tone
Can anyone give me a quick summary on what might be the difference between a Lyon G and Pistoy G? Is the Pistoy more modern sounding? I had a Pistoy D and loved it. I have only tried the Lyon G before.
For those who know this witchcraft overall, how does the twisting process affect the end product? Is this why my Pirastros are stiff while Gamuts, Lenzners, Efranos, Baldocks and no-names have been looser in tension, feel and softer + darker in tone? Talking about plain gut here.Thanks.
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