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Have wattage, need VOLUME!

M

mindslave

Nov 8, 2009
27
0
#1
So, I have what I think is a pretty badass rack, consisting of a BBE 383 pre, DBX Compressor, a Monsterpower 2500, and a Crown XLS2500...my tone is pretty much dialed as far as the rack goes, and as you can see by the power amp, I have headroom for DAYS...but I lack in volume big time.
I know that you usually sacrifice tone for volume, and vice versa, and I get compliments on my tone constantly...but you can never hear me...and that ain't okay with me.
I play in a metal band...a very aggressive one...that plays in B.

Anyway, i have had a few different "cheaper" cabs, and have built a couple myself, and currently play a 115 and 210 that i built with Carvin Neo drivers. But they don't have the push that i need. I have been looking at markbass cabs because i have always liked the tone and sheer power they put out. But my local guitar center NEVER carries cool gear. They have a bunch of small ampeg, and acoustic combos, and sometimes an acoustic 810, but rarely anything else.

I really want yo stay away from 810's because of portability. I have been thinking on a markbass 115 and 210 but not sure whether that will put me forward in the mix enough. We rarely play with PA reinforcement, so it's gotta be totally up to my rig to compensate.

Any other advice or experience anyone can offer would be very much appreciated!
 
#3
Speaker efficiency and cab design are critical factors for maximizing volume.

If you need lotsa volume and minimal weight, then check out cabs with Eminence 3015LF woofer and crossed over mid drivers: fEarful, Bill Fitzmaurice (BFM), and Low Down Sound.

Barefaced cabs made in Britain are quite awesome too from what I've read here on TB.

TB153 cabs by Avatar have some loose similarities to fEarful and Low Down Sound 15/6 cabs.
 
#6
Bergantino cabs are user-efficient too.

Whatever your choice, I suggest getting two cabs (if not a tall cab) so that you have speaker(s) near ear level so you can hear yourself.

millsbass5 said:
Two words: ACME CABS!!!

From talk on here (and in reviews),they ABSOLUTELY EAT high power....... And then,they ask for desert.
Click to expand...

They eat high power because they are inefficient. Those are great cabs for low B, but wouldn't be my first choice for maximizing volume. Try stacking two Acme B2 2x10 cabs vertically if you go that route. Maybe that could work in a loud metal band with gobs of power from the amp.
 
#7
nickrs540 said:
fEARful 1515/66.

I'm just waiting for my speakers to come in and I should have a very destructive rig after that. I'm going to be running a Carvin B2000 into mine. Won't have any volume issues there.
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Good choice there^^^. A use a Carvin B1500 or two...same amp almost just heavier. I prefer separate 15/6 cabs over a 1515/66 but only due to the weight.

B1500156quad2.jpg
 
#11
Zoa said:
what's your budget?
Click to expand...

well, budget is sort of being calculated. I am trying to talk the wife into around $1000 or so, but as of yet its still a discussion :)

As far as cab design on my own stuff, a LOT of homework, engineering, and design went into the cabs of mine...it actually bordered on obsession for a bit, but i didn't have the money to try a bunch of different drivers out, so maainly just used carvins. Thought about snagging either a peavey BW 18, or something like that, and rebuilding the low cab and keeping the 210, but i don't really have the time to redesign a whole new cab again.

another option i thought about looking into was the markbass 604 and matching 1201. I hear both those cabs are pretty amazing.
 
#12
mindslave said:
Thought about snagging either a peavey BW 18, or something like that, and rebuilding the low cab and keeping the 210, but i don't really have the time to redesign a whole new cab again.
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A Peavey black widow 18 was hot s--- in the 80s, but they get stomped by modern cabs like fEarfuls and BFMs. The weight difference is non-trivial as well.
 
#13
Given an ordinary/typical cab design, it's simply not realistic to expect a 15 and two 10's to (a) handle a ton of wattage, or (b) turn that wattage efficiently into air movement. The reason for the 810's popularity in rock/metal is because it has so much speaker surface area, and most 810's are tuned relatively high, so the power is distributed more to the range of frequencies that get really loud.

If you want maximum loudness with small portable cabs, try different EQ. Cut your lows, let the low mids do the talking. And make sure the speakers (and their boxes) can actually handle the wattage spikes without farting out or failing. Just feeding a speaker more wattage will not always make it louder; and it's very common for the box design to make the speakers themselves under-perform.
 
#14
The speakers I currently have, the 15 is rated 600w continuous, and the 210combined rate the same.

How tight are the Avatar 15/6 cabs? Was looking at those and thought about adding the 210 on top to have some nice punchy-ness to it. I play a lot of different techniques, slapping, some percussive stuff, as well as the basic driving lines, so I want to make sure the rig will be really punchy and tight.

Wish there was a place that carried all those stuff together that I could just go and try out a whole bunch of **** :)
 
#15
The ratings on the speakers are their thermal ratings, the point where they will burn up. The point where they start farting out or otherwise failing to perform well is about half that--especially if the box is not ideally designed for the specific speaker. (Specific model from specific brand)
 
#16
mindslave said:
The speakers I currently have, the 15 is rated 600w continuous, and the 210combined rate the same.
Click to expand...
Those arbitrarily thermal power handling numbers (watts RMS) have nothing to do with speaker efficiency and cab design and are also determined by inconsistent measurement methods among manufacturers.

mindslave said:
How tight are the Avatar 15/6 cabs? Was looking at those and thought about adding the 210 on top to have some nice punchy-ness to it. I play a lot of different techniques, slapping, some percussive stuff, as well as the basic driving lines, so I want to make sure the rig will be really punchy and tight.

Wish there was a place that carried all those stuff together that I could just go and try out a whole bunch of **** :)
Click to expand...
I'd never recommend using a 2x10 with a 15/6 due to mis-matching and frequency cancellations by comb filtering. A pair of 15/6 cabs are awesome for loud, well dispersed, tight, balance modern tone. fEarfuls and BFM are best. LDS and TB153 are close.

If there's ever a TalkBass get together in your geographic area, then you may get a chance to try some of these cabs. They're not sold new retail at brick and mortar stores.
 
#18
Those fEARfuls look pretty awesome, but they pretty well exceed my budget. The more and more I talk to my wife, the more my budget seems to be shrinking... :(

And I doubt there will ever be a talkbass gathering near me...nothing ever happens near my town lol. Sucks ass.

Gotta try and figure out a way to test some stuff. Got such a bad case of G.A.S. Right mow, I need to try things before I start making rash purchases ;)
 
#19
Alright, well after a stint in the ER, my uninsured self has had to alter the course of the "Cab ship" drastically. Ordered a Kappalite 3015 LF and some other supplies, and will be re-building my cab, instead of buying...which bums me out, because as much fun as I have engineering things, and building things, I just don't have the time...oh well...

Anyway, it will be the Kappalite in a vented bottom half, and my 2 existing Carvin Neo 10's will be taking up residence in the sealed upper half, and I will be bi-amping with my pre-amp, so I can have better control over what frequencies are going where.

Not exactly what I was hoping for, but I can't frown at the final product I can see in my head...Red Vinyl with a white cloth grille, and black piping, and I will also be fabricating a custom badge to put on it, so it looks totally legit.

I may even post build pics if I have the foresight :)

Thank you all for the help in the matter. I was pretty much set on a pair of 15/6/1 cabs, but I'm lucky I got as much money as I did...next time tho...next time ;)
 
#20
mindslave said:
...it will be the Kappalite in a vented bottom half, and my 2 existing Carvin Neo 10's will be taking up residence in the sealed upper half, and I will be bi-amping with my pre-amp, so I can have better control over what frequencies are going where.
Click to expand...
well then you'd have nothing but one 15 carrying all the low end! you might end up with less volume than when you started :crying:

let go of the "15 for lows, 10s for highs" thing, because that's not what happens.

find or build (with a legit design using math and everything) a cab that sounds good, then get two of them!

exactly matched cabs will "help" each other, while mis-matched boxes may not, and may actually "fight" each other, canceling stuff due to phase issues.
 

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