Have we all been tricked!?

[Cardsfan85]

I'm not sure if this has been posted or not (I know it has too many strings) but this video is super interesting. I find myself often lusting after high end instruments because they are supposed to far superior. Prime example I have a MIM Fender p but always scope out stuff like Nash or even some of the custom shop instruments knowing they have to sound so much better. After watching this video I simply ordered a lollar p pickup convinced that as far as sound goes it will be there. I know things like playability can be argued but with cnc and a quality setup do they play that big of a difference? I know this is an argument that happens almost every week and I'm not knocking anyone for indulging in high end instruments at all.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Oh boy, here we go again.

As in every other thread, there are a ton of factors that contribute to tone. You take Marcus Miller and give him Flea's favorite brand of strings do you think he's going to suddenly sound like anyone but Marcus Miller? Of course not!

High end instruments are expensive because they play better and feel more comfortable, and also often have features that are not available on off-the-shelf models. Tone is subjective, and most of us who play high-end instruments will of course argue that our boutique axes sound better than something off the shelf at guitar center, but it's relative so there's no way to prove who is "right."

You sound best when you're comfortable. Playing "better" strings that don't feel good under your hands is not going to improve your sound no matter how many YouTube videos tell you they're the bees knees.

 

[2saddleslab]

All you need is a Danelectro bass to realize all the "tone" formulas go out the window.

 

[Cardsfan85]

I can obviously acknowledge that some controls matter (type of strings flats vs round, pickup brand and type, etc) but things as nuanced as paint type, body wood, etc. That people go crazy about aren't really factors at all.

 

[JonathanPDX]

I can obviously acknowledge that some controls matter (type of strings flats vs round, pickup brand and type, etc) but things as nuanced as paint type, body wood, etc. That people go crazy about aren't really factors at all.

Okay, but what if having a really beautiful instrument makes you feel inspired? Or seeing the wicked flame decal on your bass gives you a little bit of confidence to put more energy into your performance? Maybe the paint doesn't have a profound impact on the vibration of the strings, but it can certainly have an impact on the player, which is going to change the sound more than just about any other factor.

 

[2saddleslab]

Okay, but what if having a really beautiful instrument makes you feel inspired? Or seeing the wicked flame decal on your bass gives you a little bit of confidence to put more energy into your performance? Maybe the paint doesn't have a profound impact on the vibration of the strings, but it can certainly have an impact on the player, which is going to change the sound more than just about any other factor.

Whatever the reason you keep a bass in your hands that results if forward progress is the right way to go.

 

[Geri O]

Yes.

We've been tricked.

It's a plot. It always was. It always will be.

 

[J-Bass RMR]

"old hat"

I won't comment on "guitar" but there's much more science and nuance in the "Bass world";
Especially in regards to low frequency transmission & reproduction - bass is a very different animal than guitar.

IME: no two (like) basses sound alike;

The way the random pieces of wood that make up the instrument, create a unique sympathetic vibration pattern, which results in a unique "frequency response" for each individual bass. (electric or upright)
As a result, different strings and/or pickups tend to "fit" some basses better than others.

Each individual's level of "critical listening" also comes into play.

 

[Cardsfan85]

Completely agree. But getting someone to put a wicked flame decal on a 300 bass doesn't make it 3000. Once again this was just am aha moment purely for me. I got a really nice set up on my vintera jazz bass and put some nice lollars in it. I love it but I still found myself looking for something else "high end" because I was so convinced the sound was going to be drastically different.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Part of depends on how you intend to keep the instrument. I put my primary bass together 41 years ago, bought my acoustic guitar 50 years ago. I hope to get at least another decade of solid playing with them. Never had an issue with either. For that, it's worth it. I also wonder whether cheaper instruments will stand the test of time.

 

[Cardsfan85]

"old hat"

I won't comment on "guitar" but there's much more science and nuance in the "Bass world";
Especially in regards to low frequency transmission & reproduction - bass is a very different animal than guitar.

IME: no two (like) basses sound alike;

The way the random pieces of wood that make up the instrument, create a unique sympathetic vibration pattern, which results in a unique "frequency response" for each individual bass. (electric or upright)
As a result, different strings and/or pickups tend to "fit" some basses better than others.

Each individual's level of "critical listening" also comes into play.

If this is true why would anyone in thier right mind order anything thing they haven't played in person. This would mean no matter brand or reputation a 100 bass "could" sound like that 5000 bass with the the chance of the right wood and the 5000 bass could sound like utter garbage given the piece of wood. If this was true as well brands couldn't build a reputation because all of thier instruments would vary no matter the spec they made them.

 

[Citizen Nara]

Oh boy, here we go again.

As in every other thread, there are a ton of factors that contribute to tone. You take Marcus Miller and give him Flea's favorite brand of strings do you think he's going to suddenly sound like anyone but Marcus Miller? Of course not!

High end instruments are expensive because they play better and feel more comfortable, and also often have features that are not available on off-the-shelf models. Tone is subjective, and most of us who play high-end instruments will of course argue that our boutique axes sound better than something off the shelf at guitar center, but it's relative so there's no way to prove who is "right."

You sound best when you're comfortable. Playing "better" strings that don't feel good under your hands is not going to improve your sound no matter how many YouTube videos tell you they're the bees knees.

Exactly, give me any expensive bass with flats and high action and I am happy to demonstrate how awful it can sound in the wrong hands

 

[bucephylus]

We have discussed that vid a multitude of times. It actually shows zero of interest to the player.

There are several aspects related to instrument selection. The electrical component of the "tone" is just one aspect. The OP vid does show a certain amount of information about inductively coupled electric instrument sound production.

Other critical aspects are related to how the instrument responds in the player's hands. The OP vid wholly leaves out these essential aspects. No two instruments feel precisely the same to the player. Being mostly made of wood, the resonant characteristics are pretty widely and significantly variable. Sure, it is possible to eliminate the wood, if you choose. But, instruments of that sort tend to have unimpressive playing vibe.

When we perform, the objective is to entertain the audience. For that purpose, playing well is top of the list. So, concentration on the music, not the instrument, is absolutely required. The instrument needs to feel sufficiently comfortable, and responsive throughout the playing register to NOT be a distraction. More easily said than done; and the reason players are constantly on the lookout.

Further, the signal chain between the board and the audience's ears can be make or break. Not only are there significant variations in the signal chain; but those variables are interactive with the different instrument characteristics.

There is just a bit more to the whole picture. That often referenced vid is largely useless, other than fomenting a continuously uninformed "debate."

Carry on.

 

[bassdude51]

Some of the greatest music ever was done on instruments that at the time cost under $300. Of course, back in the 60s, $300 was like $3,000 in today's money.

IMHO, I think that there is a certain point where for very large amounts of money, we may get a bass that is 10% or less better than something that is affordable.

I've put together 10 or more parts basses for around $650 to $800 and I personally don't see that there would be much gain for me to spend over $2,000 for a new bass.

The Fender MIM basses are very good!!!!!!

 

[lomo]

IMHO reasons for spending more on an instrument involve ergonomics, adjustability, appearance and exclusivity/originality, but not tone. If we evaluated tone objectively & blindly, a cheapo bass would hold up against the priciest of basses. The Emperor is buck naked. I'm an unapologetic gear hound, but I acknowledge it's for my own obsessive pleasure and no one cares but me.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Why have an actual, playable instrument when you can just string up some benches and make sounds?

Why didn't I think of this?!!

 

[Gorn]

After years of this debate, it seems to me that rounds or flats making all the difference. One basic kind of tone or the other. Everything else is tweaking settings and I never thought the wood mattered and still don't.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

I have better things to beat than a dead horse.

 

[Ellery]

No, we haven't been tricked. I think more experienced bass players than not understand where the value comes from. Many of us want different things from our instrument. It took me a while to truly understand what I value most in a bass. That doesn't mean I also don't like rad basses that are expensive but are only a little bit better than something a quarter of the price in practical terms. But hey, I like cars too, but I drive an old economy car instead of going into debt for something new and fancy, which I see a lot of people around me doing. Were they all tricked?

 

[BassicJazzy]

I've discovered after many years that the key to having my bass sound better is to have someone else play it.