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Having a "Jazz Background" Has Become The Excuse For Incompetence

#21
^^^ The musical equivalent of "Rock, Paper, Scissors"!

I know some jazz sounds to some people like no 2 players are on the same song, let alone there being any structure. In my experience at least, the real jazz players that I've known could easily handle anything in the pop/rock/country realms, regardless of their instrument. I currently have a side project with an accomplished jazz guitarist who has rock chops like Satriani.
 
#23
A few legitimate jazz musicians I know have very little familiarity with rock styles and would probably struggle a bit or at least sound artificial playing in a rock band, just because it isn't their kind of music. But then again they wouldn't ever join a rock band anyway, so that likely doesn't explain your situation. :)

The rest of the real jazz musicians I know (a majority) have no trouble playing rock songs and in fact can play rings around many of their rock-only friends.

These guys kind of sound like jazz wannabes?
 
#25
This reminds me of when I was helping out with the recording of the Queensland Youth Orchestra. All great young classical muso's. During a break, 5 of them went to the small studio next door where they had electric instruments and a kit set up, and proceeded to play the hell out of a selection of modern jazz (Weather Report, Brecker Brothers etc) and serious rock tunes for fun.

They really didn't seem to be suffering from any particular musical disabilities based on their genre backgrounds at all. In fact, it really looked like talented musicians able to fairly easily traverse a variety of musical styles to me.
 
#26
Close enough for jazz ;)

I was originally trained as a classical violinist, and I can say when I was first learning bass and playing rock it took a minute to get out of the mindset of playing music being "read the notes on the page, play the notes on the page" but certainly never used it as an excuse for screwing up in those early days.
 
#27
Using it as an excuse is lame. But i knew some very good jazz players who just plain stunk at rock. Why? They hadn't bothered to learn it's language, so their first impulses were all wrong.
 
#29
I'm a "jazz guy". Meaning, I like jazz. I listen to it, I play it etc. But, I find myself in a weird similar situation. The guy that advertised for a base player dangled jazz and smooth jazz over my head. Well, I guess I didn't really understand what "smooth jazz" was. Because, ..what is with all the blues????? When did the blues become smooth jazz??? I dunno. How long can I do I-IV-V????? I'm ponying up but, I sure would like to play a Sade song once in a while.
 
#31
It definitely should not be an excuse, as a Jazz musician should know more than enough theory and technique to play most other genres of music.

However, I think it's important to note that each genre has its own vocabulary developed over many generations of players. I don't think it's at all strange for a Jazz musician to face a learning curve when trying to tackle the nuances of rock or country when first confronting the respective styles.

With that said, that doesn't give you an excuse to forget how to play (your fundamentals) altogether!

Evaluate musicians by how they play, not how they label themselves. :)
 
#33
jtroska said:
This time, it's the drummer. Can't count to 4 and end his fills on the 1. When I count it out on my fingers to demonstrate what we need, he gets all philosophical and ponders if there really is a definitive "1" in music.
Click to expand...

Even in jazz the drummers aren't supposed to end their fills on the 1. So, I'm doubting he's a jazz drummer.
 
#37
brownie_bass said:
You haven't heard about this before? It's absolutely true. I suck at rock because of my jazz training, I suck at jazz because of my classical training, and I suck at classical because of my rock training.
Click to expand...

I know you're being facetious (no! really! I do!:D ), but when I was growing up and regularly jamming with a great guitarist in the next town who, like me, enjoyed both rock AND jazz, we would play hard rock for a month or so, then focus on jazz for a few months, then back to rock, and around and around we went. We ALWAYS found that studying one genre made us better musicians in the OTHER genre, and vice versa. We were a little surprised, but that just spurred us on.

Methinks the subject of the OP has allowed his training to get in the way of his education...
 
#39
jtroska said:
This time, it's the drummer. Can't count to 4 and end his fills on the 1. When I count it out on my fingers to demonstrate what we need, he gets all philosophical and ponders if there really is a definitive "1" in music.
Click to expand...

The next step is that the drummer says he is too well versed in indian music and you don't play anything in 132.5/4!

I was a jazz drummer for years, the decent ones were masters of time. I can't claim that but I was able to play with one bar of click followed by 15 bars of silence and hit the downbeat on bar 1 again.

I guess my opinion is that his response is a lot of droppings from a male bovine!
 
#40
jtroska said:
This time, it's the drummer. Can't count to 4 and end his fills on the 1. When I count it out on my fingers to demonstrate what we need, he gets all philosophical and ponders if there really is a definitive "1" in music.

I may be a rock and roller. But I'm a schooled rock and roller. You can't just play any old garbage and claim it's jazz. That B.S. doesn't fly with me. :scowl:
Click to expand...

Mention Ginger Baker, if that man can use his jazz background to be a great rock drummer, well then there should be no problem!
 

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