Headless Club???

[MovinTarget]

I stand corrected. The super-vanilla base model is even cheaper at $1100

Well that's quite shocking actually!

I don't think its that shocking. *Technically* there is nothing super new here for them other than using headless hardware and perhaps modified CNC designs. They've had multiscale offerings for at least a couple of years already. I'm pretty sure every single one of these exists as a "headed" bass as well.

Basically you are buying an Ibanez, but its headless! So if you like Ibbys but always wanted a headless, this is up your alley. If you hated Ibbys, but like headless... this may not convert you...

 

[vvvmmm]

Hey, I gotta question:

For me, a huge part of the attraction of the "headless bass" is the reduced size, the ergonomics of the Steinberger and similar designs; what about "headless" with an otherwise full-size bass makes it attractive?

 

[MovinTarget]

Hey, I gotta question:

For me, a huge part of the attraction of the "headless bass" is the reduced size, the ergonomics of the Steinberger and similar designs; what about "headless" with an otherwise full-size bass makes it attractive?

For many, they prefer having a full body as it feels more familiar. From a tinkerer's perspective (and I love the original Steinbergers!), a full body gives you more space to work with for modifications.

Having said that, my current long term project is a pair of 28.5" scale headless basses with smaller, traditional bodies to match.

 

[vvvmmm]

Perhaps a little history is in order.

I bought my first headless in the abhorred 6-string form to put under the desk in my office to jam on during breaks.

When years later I graduated to the bright side, I bought my first headless bass because, well, it looked cool.

4 basses later (so I have 5, what I mention to show my dedication to the format - only 1 Cort is kinda funky and so it's tuned for slide, and of the Hohners one is fretless, and one is buckers and one is PJ and another buckers has flats and is silver, and the latest is a Spirit with flats), I find them ergonomic for sitting-down jams, and specially for recording in my small and tight bedroom studio, and a great accompanying bass to carry with something full-size when I play out.

 

[ctmullins]

Hey, I gotta question:

For me, a huge part of the attraction of the "headless bass" is the reduced size, the ergonomics of the Steinberger and similar designs; what about "headless" with an otherwise full-size bass makes it attractive?

For me:

1. Balance
2. Tuning stability
3. Balance
4. Easier to dance with on a crowded stage
5. Balance

 

[vvvmmm]

So, how's the balance?

 

[gigetto]

These new Ibanez are the affordable version of Strandberg Boden that are well made and expensive. Are not cheap but not too far for a medium player to buy....

I wait because in my opinion Ibanez straight with these but Yamaha could respond nearly....

 

[Aidil]

I wait because in my opinion Ibanez straight with these but Yamaha could respond nearly....

But there were quite a lot of disappointments after knowing the weight of Yamaha headless 6 string bass that was made for Nathan East, about a year ago. Cause 9 lbs 4 oz wasn't exactly lightweight for a headless bass which half of the body was made out of big giant hole.

 

[gigetto]

But there were quite a lot of disappointments after knowing the weight of Yamaha headless 6 string bass that was made for Nathan East, about a year ago. Cause 9 lbs 4 oz wasn't exactly lightweight for a headless bass which half of the body was made out of big giant hole.

I think this is a Bass-Boutique, not a market bestseller and nowadays Yamaha except BB series doesn't have such new models....IMHO, if in a mid fascia about 1000$ Yamaha make an HL in response of these Ibanez she can straight too...

 

[MovinTarget]

I think this is a Bass-Boutique, not a market bestseller and nowadays Yamaha except BB series doesn't have such new models....IMHO, if in a mid fascia about 1000$ Yamaha make an HL in response of these Ibanez she can straight too...

Yeah headless is niche.

Multiscale is niche.

Headless multiscale is uber-niche.

Right now its Strandberg and these Ibanez that I know (apart from custom shops).

The Strandberg looks more exprimental. Ibanez is probably banking on the "I want one, but I am not paying 2700 for it!" players.

Also, you do have the option of just hedless with standard scale.

Just wist you could get any finish with any model.

 

[gigetto]

I hope in new Yamaha normal scale headless, light like his A2, affordable in price available in 4,5,6 strings.

 

[Lunatique]

Here's a photo of my NSDesign Radius WAV.

I got it mainly because of its piezo pickup tone, which is uniquely different from other piezo pickups I've heard in the past. It has beefy and full lows, and the acoustic-vibe doesn't sound gratingly noisy with excessive shrillness and finger noise (but it can sound that way if you play it through colored amps like the Fender Rumble 25, which makes it sound unpleasant. Through the Phil Jones Flightcase BG-150 it sounds far more natural and pleasing).

The magnetic pickup sounds fine. I would categorize it as modern and neutral, without a distinct characteristic,. When I roll the piezo pickup's tone knob all the way off, it sounds kinda similar to the magnetic pickup with the tone wide open. Blending the two gets you a magnetic pickup sound with the acoustic sheen mixed in, with the piezo pickup dominating the overall sonic character at 50% blend.

I'm not a fan of glossy painted necks in general because it doesn't feel as nice on the hand, although it does make the bass look more uniform to the body. It's a hard choice to make--between having a painted neck that matches the body, or a satin or tung oil finish that feels nicer to the touch, but don't look as cohesive with a solid color painted body.

The headless design of the Radius series has a much longer "head" than typical headless designs--about an extra fret length, which I don't particularly like, because it adds unnecessary length when the whole point of headless for me is to have a lot less material at the head that will bash into stuff.

I'm a headless fan because I hate bashing the headstock into stuff, knocking the strings out of tune, neck-dive, and heavy weight. As much as I like some headstock designs visually, I'm overall a pretty pragmatic guy, so headless is my favored design, and I'll likely be swapping out all of my basses to headless ones eventually, although some don't have headless counterparts available (such as my NS Design Omni CR5 and Ibanez SRH500F fretless). I might swap my Ibanez SR650 and Dingwall NG-2 5-string out with the upcoming Ibanez headless EHB series. That leaves just my Ibanez Mikro, which is short/light weight enough that I don't really feel the need to swap it out with a headless short scale, although it does have neck-dive. But I only play it while sitting in bed, and I have a string attaching the strap to the headstock for better balance, so it's not a big deal. However, if I get a short scale headless at some point, the Mikro will become redundant.

Currently on my headless G.A.S list are:

Kiesel Vader 30" scale
Wing Bass 30
Cazpar 4A Headless
The upcoming Ibanez Ibanez EHB series

I did have severe G.A.S for the Strandberg Boden for a while, but I've decided I prefer normal frets over fanned frets.

I also considered a Brice headless short scale at one point, but I just couldn't get over the lazy body design that used the same body as the multi-scale version, which then left a huge useless empty space below the bridge.

 

[gigetto]

Cool

 

[Lunatique]

A couple pictures to prove.
View attachment 3027985 View attachment 3027986

What kind of finish did you get for the neck of your yellow Vader? I'm contemplating customizing a yellow Vader too, and I'm not sure whether to go with the clear gloss to match the body paint, or get the body in satin and match the neck to it, or tung oil (which will look less coherent overall).

I personally prefer tung oil or satin because they feel more comfortable to the touch (similar to bare wood), but for the body I kinda prefer a clear gloss for the yellow (going for that sports car aesthetic), so it's a bit hard to decide what to do.

 

[Danny O Danny]

I've never been a fan of headless basses--either the look or the feel--but I recently acquired two NS Design Radiuses and have become a believer. I think the extra bit at the end of the neck, and the incredibly comfortable body, made it easy for me to adjust. Now when I play a traditional bass, with a headstock and machineheads, it feels a little unwieldy.

 

[Lunatique]

I've never been a fan of headless basses--either the look or the feel--but I recently acquired two NS Design Radiuses and have become a believer. I think the extra bit at the end of the neck, and the incredibly comfortable body, made it easy for me to adjust. Now when I play a traditional bass, with a headstock and machineheads, it feels a little unwieldy.

View attachment 3683313

Interesting that you have both a CR and a WAV, since the WAV is basically a CR with less features. Do you tune them differently or have different types of strings on them, and that's why you have both?

Other than the WAV having only one pickup and no onboard EQ, would you say there are any other meaningful differences between the two models for you?

 

[MovinTarget]

Interesting that you have both a CR and a WAV, since the WAV is basically a CR with less features. Do you tune them differently or have different types of strings on them, and that's why you have both?

Other than the WAV having only one pickup and no onboard EQ, would you say there are any other meaningful differences between the two models for you?

Pickup placement is different though. WAV pup is approximately between the CR pups

 

[Lunatique]

Pickup placement is different though. WAV pup is approximately between the CR pups

What does that translate into in terms of differences in tone? I assume WAV will have a more neutral tone while the CR will have more distinct and wider range tones?

 

[Danny O Danny]

So here's how that happened: I've been playing the NXT upright for a while and that sold me on the quality and ingenuity of the NS Design instruments and on the sound of the piezo. As a result I'd been curious about the Radius basses but could never find one to try out. Then I stumbled upon a used WAV Radius at a local Guitar Center, for a great price. I tried it out and was really impressed, and I bought it. That's the white one in the photo. I really like the way the pickup is positioned in the P bass "sweet spot" on the WAV. I blend about 50/50 between the magnetic pickup and the piezo. The mag pickup gives it punch and the piezo gives it oomph (depth).

I really fell in love with the WAV and figured maybe at some point I'd like to try out a CR and see what the differences are. But, again, the chances of finding one to try out seemed slim. One day, on a whim, I searched Guitar Center's website for "NS Design" and discovered a used CR Radius at a store in the Midwest for a very low price. Thought about it for a couple of days and decided to pull the trigger on it and have it shipped to GC nearby. I figured if it was in bad shape or if I wasn't impressed with it I could return it to GC for refund and only be out the cost of shipping. A calculated gamble, given my experience with the WAV. When it arrived it was in mint condition and I was very impressed. That's the natural maple one in the photo.

So, comparing the WAV to the CR: First off, the CR screams high quality. I've owned boutique basses in the past and the CR is of comparable workmanship to the best of them. The fit and finish are excellent. The satin neck finish is lovely. The WAV is a mass production, Indonesian-made bass and seems well built within those parameters. The paint job on the WAV is particularly well done, even though I never aspired to own a white bass and I don't care for finish or paint on the back of a neck. The CR has more tonal variety than the WAV, obviously with the two pickups + piezo. I've got the WAV dialed into one sound that I really like (the 50/50 blend) and the CR dialed into a different sound that I really like (very little piezo, both pickups on full, bass and mids boosted, treble rolled off). I tend to find one sound I like on a bass and stick with it. So with the WAV I get "deeper/warmer" sound and with the CR I get a more focused sound. I think of the WAV as my "P bass" on steroids and the CR as my "J bass" on steroids--but I don't mean by that that either one sounds like a Precision or Jazz. They very much have their own sound, but I don't know how to describe it. I think of the WAV's sound as more old school and the CR's as more modern, but that's highly subjective. The WAV, btw, sounds great with a foam mute. I'd be more likely to use the WAV for a blues or country gig and more likely to use the CR for a jazz fusion or rock gig. The WAV's body is a bit more resonant and alive--and I can feel it vibrate my sternum. The CR is by no means dead, but it doesn't resonate like the WAV. I assume this has to do with the woods that are used. I like that on the CR I can get some nice tonal variations simply by changing my right-hand position. At some point I think I'd like to put a ramp between the two pickups on the CR. Both basses sound tremendous and are equally light and ergonomic. The CR might be a few ounces lighter, but I haven't weighed them. The body shapes and necks dimensions seem exactly the same on both. As far as I know the hardware (bridge, tuners, pickup, piezo) is the same. There's a bit more to the electronics on the CR, but I like the simplicity of the controls on the WAV. The CR is 18v and the WAV is 9v--frankly, I can't tell the difference, but I assume the CR's batteries will last longer. Maybe the CR is slightly louder. The CR has the fiber core in the neck, which the WAV doesn't have, but neither bass has any discernable dead spots (maybe that's a feature of headless basses?).

I like the Radiuses so much that I've put my other, traditional, basses up for sale (I don't need that many basses). I like to always have a main and a backup bass. So I figured that the WAV will be the backup for the CR. But I enjoy playing the WAV as much as the CR. And I get a little more variety that way. But I definitely reach for the CR more than the WAV. I haven't had a chance to record with either of them yet, so I'm looking forward to seeing what that yields. I'd like to see NS Design make a higher quality Czech-built version of the WAV, with nice wood, satin finish, etc., but the single pickup in the P bass spot. If they ever do that, I'll probably buy one and sell my WAV.

Having played both, I can see how the CR in particular would also be an excellent fretless (due to that bridge pickup). Who knows, maybe that will be my next acquisition.

 

[Lunatique]

So here's how that happened: I've been playing the NXT upright for a while and that sold me on the quality and ingenuity of the NS Design instruments and on the sound of the piezo. As a result I'd been curious about the Radius basses but could never find one to try out. Then I stumbled upon a used WAV Radius at a local Guitar Center, for a great price. I tried it out and was really impressed, and I bought it. That's the white one in the photo. I really like the way the pickup is positioned in the P bass "sweet spot" on the WAV. I blend about 50/50 between the magnetic pickup and the piezo. The mag pickup gives it punch and the piezo gives it oomph (depth).

I really fell in love with the WAV and figured maybe at some point I'd like to try out a CR and see what the differences are. But, again, the chances of finding one to try out seemed slim. One day, on a whim, I searched Guitar Center's website for "NS Design" and discovered a used CR Radius at a store in the Midwest for a very low price. Thought about it for a couple of days and decided to pull the trigger on it and have it shipped to GC nearby. I figured if it was in bad shape or if I wasn't impressed with it I could return it to GC for refund and only be out the cost of shipping. A calculated gamble, given my experience with the WAV. When it arrived it was in mint condition and I was very impressed. That's the natural maple one in the photo.

So, comparing the WAV to the CR: First off, the CR screams high quality. I've owned boutique basses in the past and the CR is of comparable workmanship to the best of them. The fit and finish are excellent. The satin neck finish is lovely. The WAV is a mass production, Indonesian-made bass and seems well built within those parameters. The paint job on the WAV is particularly well done, even though I never aspired to own a white bass and I don't care for finish or paint on the back of a neck. The CR has more tonal variety than the WAV, obviously with the two pickups + piezo. I've got the WAV dialed into one sound that I really like (the 50/50 blend) and the CR dialed into a different sound that I really like (very little piezo, both pickups on full, bass and mids boosted, treble rolled off). I tend to find one sound I like on a bass and stick with it. So with the WAV I get "deeper/warmer" sound and with the CR I get a more focused sound. I think of the WAV as my "P bass" on steroids and the CR as my "J bass" on steroids--but I don't mean by that that either one sounds like a Precision or Jazz. They very much have their own sound, but I don't know how to describe it. I think of the WAV's sound as more old school and the CR's as more modern, but that's highly subjective. The WAV, btw, sounds great with a foam mute. I like that on the CR I can get some nice tonal variations simply by changing my right-hand position. At some point I think I'd like to put a ramp between the two pickups on the CR. Both basses sound tremendous and are equally light and ergonomic. The body shapes and necks dimensions seem exactly the same on both. As far as I know the hardware (bridge, tuners, pickup, piezo) is the same. There's a bit more to the electronics on the CR, but I like the simplicity of the controls on the WAV. The CR has the fiber core in the neck, which the WAV doesn't have, but neither bass has any discernable dead spots (maybe that's a feature of headless basses?).

I like the Radiuses so much that I've put my other, traditional, basses up for sale (I don't need that many basses). I like to always have a main and a backup bass. So I figured that the WAV will be the backup for the CR. But I enjoy playing the WAV as much as the CR. And I get a little more variety that way. I haven't had a chance to record with either of them yet, so I'm looking forward to seeing what that yields. I'd like to see NS Design make a higher quality Czech-built version of the WAV, with nice wood, satin finish, etc., but the single pickup in the P bass spot. If they ever do that, I'll probably buy one and sell my WAV.

Having played both, I can see how the CR in particular would also be an excellent fretless (due to that bridge pickup). Who knows, maybe that will be my next acquisition.

I agree about the painted neck. I don't mind them when they're a satin finish (like on the firemist gold Music Man Bongo HH 5-string I used to have), but I don't care for the glossy finish like on the WAV (mine's the metallic crimson)--it can get tacky if there's any moisture on your hands at all, and they don't glide as smoothly as tung oil or satin finish. I don't know why they didn't use a satin finish on the neck, or would that add to the manufacturing cost?

I have a NS Design Omni CR5, and I agree the overall feel and finish on it is a tier above the WAV. I play mine mainly with the Boomerang strap system and I think it's genius. Very comfortable and versatile.

The piezo on the Radius would make for a great fretless. It'll have a very unique tone that you won't be able to find anywhere else. I don't know why Ned decided to only have a fretless version of the NXTa, but not for WAV and CR. Could it be because the piezo doesn't work that well on a fretless? You can try converting a CR into a fretless, but definitely consult NS's about it first.