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would this make good earplugs for a 15 year old who is short on cash and rehearses very loud and goes to metal fests every month?
http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/Elacin-er20...UK_MusicalInstr_Access_RL?hash=item3356763ecf
http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/Elacin-er20...UK_MusicalInstr_Access_RL?hash=item3356763ecf
btw, my ears anyway have been ringing all the time (they ring a little but if there is a fan running in the room i dont hear it) since i started attending and playing gigs for a year or two before i bought these ear ER20 plugs. the ringing only gets louder at times after the gigs
i found out from a place near by where they sell hearing aids and run the audiology tests and all they had no idea about musicians ear plugs. i will check else where
its usually a ~150Watt combo amp but not turned up too loud same with guitar amps on stage, combo amps but all guitar players have to go di to the PA
thanks i will find out again about custom molded ones. i am currently using etymonic research er20s and i wear them at every practice too
Ringing = bad!
Contact your local hearing clinic/audiology centre. I can't imagine it's impossible to get custom plugs in the capital of India
i found out from a place near by where they sell hearing aids and run the audiology tests and all they had no idea about musicians ear plugs. i will check else where
its usually a ~150Watt combo amp but not turned up too loud same with guitar amps on stage, combo amps but all guitar players have to go di to the PA
thanks i will find out again about custom molded ones. i am currently using etymonic research er20s and i wear them at every practice too
Please, josbroek:
Those earplugs are woefully insufficient, even if they deliver the attenuation claimed. Even if you weren't into metal....
Short on cash? That's rough. Short on hearing? That's rougher.
So here's my suggestion, bassist to bassist:
(a) Whatever "very loud" is, you've got to stop...like yesterday. Play "not very loud," and since that isn't something that can be quantified, ergo, you must only rehearse with earplugs--custom earplugs--ER-25. Hey, at 15, I didn't think anything could touch me, not even a speeding bullet. And I'd roll my eyes when older guys reminded me that I'm not immortal. I got touched both by the volume and, in a totally separate incident, by four speeding bullets. But don't worry about the bullets. The odds of that are very low. But the dB level?! You're living in an age when the secret's out: Plugs are necessary for all band-musicians. Please read my previous posts.
(b) Save the money you spend on the metal-fests by skipping them for as long as you need to. You've got many years ahead to catch up on the concerts you missed, so don't be nearsighted. Cut your spending on everything else. In a short while, you'll be able to purchase the custom earplugs. Look: When somebody has a "custom bass" or just a plain old top-notch production bass, s/he flips if it gets a little scratch. Here, we're dealing with your ears. They're custom, too: They're the only ones you've got; they were fitted for you, and, unlike a custom bass, there's no replacing them.
(c) Unlike a custom bass, custom earplugs cost about as much as a Squier Affinity :scowl:. 'nuff said.
Best of Luck.
PD
Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.
Hey, varunkapahi,
The fact that you have chronic tinnitus already makes your need to get the custom plugs an auditory emergency, if you plan to continue gigging. You don't want to end up like Pete Townsend, or all the other rockstars who're nearly deaf but just don't talk about the problem/s they have w/hearing 'cause it's bad for business and ticks off their corporate sponsors.
The fan masks your tinnitus? Excellent! Take advantage of that. I use masking sometimes, too. I was @ a similar point when I stopped playing entirely for a few years until I made up my mind to return to the stage with mega-plugs and a different 'tude. Yep, like you I had the bilateral tinnitus. Thanks to dumb luck, I somehow had above-average normal hearing. I decided to keep it.
Of course your ears ring louder than "usual" after some gigs: They're telling you that your existing tinnitus is on its way to getting much worse, accompanied perhaps with substantial hearing-loss. There's no way you can predict what's going to be the outcome of all this. You don't want more hearing trouble, right? You're not a masochist! Right?
It's good that you use the ER-20s. It's obviously not enough, though. Before I got serious and grew up, I'd sometimes put a couple o' plugs in my ears, but usually not. Ety's the company that developed generic- and custom -musician-plugs when everybody else had his/her, uh, ears in the sand. Good brand. No matter what label is actually stuck/embossed on hi-fi plugs that resemble yours, they're made by Ety. Same with the custom filters you will be getting very very soon with your custom earmolds.
I'm glad you checked with a local clinic. I'm not surprised they were clueless. A local clinic around here wouldn't be able to help you either. No mom n' pop stops for you! You want to talk to people in a UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL DEPARTMENT OF AUDIOLOGY. Those are the folks who are on the cutting-edge of their field, not the private practitioners. The University people will be able to help you. If they can't (that would be downright weird), call Ety and--yeah--you read that right--talk to one of the big-shots there, not an operator, about the situation in New Delhi. The top dogs @ Ety are on a mission. This all started with a head honcho there who was a musician and, um, realized that his ears were taking a beating. Get them to help you. Again, it's highly unlikely that you'd need to go to that extreme, but going deaf is even more extreme.
I urge you: Do not play another gig, go to another rehearsal or concert...nothing, until you have the proper protection. If you want to keep going with the music anyways, even before you get those custom plugs, wear over-the-ear 29dB ear-muffs in the meantime, preferably with your Etys underneath. Paul Gilbert the shred-god guitarist does something like that. He's nearly deaf in one ear and says that he can't hear the phone ring when he's in the same @@!~!@ room. That means he's got trouble w/both ears. You've got to be pretty hard-of hearing not to hear a modern phone ring, even if the ringer's on "low."
Also, I'm worried that your tinnitus is amplified after gigs even when wearing the Ety-20s. There could be a few reasons for that: (a) You're predisposed to tinnitus and, possibly, hearing loss, and need to reconsider playing in a loud band. No two ears were created alike. (b) You're not inserting the plugs properly, or the plugs just can't fit you right. One size DOES NOT always fit all. (c) You drink &/or smoke a lot before you play: That makes you more susceptible to ear-trouble.
You live in one of the largest cities in the world. You will find the custom plugs, and you will find professionals who can answer your questions (like the ones you asked us).
Good Luck.
PD
Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.
You hit the nail on the head: Those are exactly the stats I conveniently ignored when I was a young punk.
thanks for all the concern and advise. i will check with the audiology dept of bigger university hospitals. i think i should also order the ETMYONIC baby blues too see if they work much better. my singer had one of those over the ear vic firth big headphones like thingi, i tried it once and it works much better so much that i have a hard time hearing whats going on.
i think i also did NOT wear ear plugs at some of the gigs in the past because i was afraid that i might not be able to hear something or i might miss or play a wrong note since plugs obviously lower the volume but however anyway i dont do that anymore.
also, i will shoot the ER people a mail anyway to find out if they have something here in this city. do i just need to send it to their "contact us" email ?
Hey, I'm a shrink: I care about people, even when off the job. But you're welcome.
If your ear-canals are narrow, yes, the baby-blues are designed for that earplug challenge. Try 'em: They don't cost any more than the "regular" ER-20s and, I believe that they have the same attenuation.
Okay, I understand: You don't want the ear-muffs because they attenuate...everything. There are muffs usually used by metal drummers that act like in-the-ear-monitors (rich rocks-stars use those; they're actually not that expensive), i.e., they give you the full spectrum of sound, more or less, but you can control the volume--lowering it. But most peeps just end up cranking it up even higher than the gig. I don't recommend such a solution for young players for that reason. You are young, I assume?
Please don't think I was patronizing you when I wrote about all the things I did: I just don't want you to lose the most precious tool a musician has--hearing. That's all. I think you realize that's my intent. So....
No, don't use the "contact us" Email for Ety-Research. I used to live near their HQs: They're massive, which makes sense, given that they're tops. In the best-case scenario, those Emails are read by underpaid grumpy clerks who proceed to delete the vast majority and fwd a small minority to the wrong people. The chance of your inquiry going to the right people is close to the absolute zero, Kelvin. Brrrrrr! I am certain that Ety (Elk Grove Village, IL, USA) has toll-free overseas #s. Call, after you have reviewed the Co's website. Ask to speak to a particular person you found on the site. Don't be shy: It's bad for biz for them to be rude to you, especially if they don't have much going on in India yet (which would be so odd, man). Be persistent! If you leave a msg, wait no longer than a day. Then, call again DURING WORKING HOURS, as you would, and ask for another pleasant person you've found on the site. Eventually, maybe within one call, you'll get to the right person. These are good, enthusiastic people, and they now have competitors, so they're even nicer
While you're doing that, well, after you make the Ety-calls, take out a pen and paper, and make a list of the major university/teaching hospitals in greater New Delhi, accompanied, of course, with the phone number of the audiology/ENT dept/s (sometimes they're separate, but they always collaborate; they have to). Don't wait to hear back from Ety. No. You're on a mission. So please, DURING WORKING HOURS, call each number and make sure to speak with a real person. If you get VM, hang up and call again in an hour. Forget about leaving msgs. Very soon, you will speak with a real person, probably the receptionist. Don't tell him/her what you're calling about: The receptionist is not medical staff; it's none of her/his biz. Instead, politely ask if you could make a phone-appointment to speak with a staff audiologist. That's it: You don't need the dept-head--just a qualified professional.
Most medical personnel work in their particular field because they're driven to do so. Yes, some get paid very well (until their spouse divorces them and takes all their money n' stuff; oh, nothing personal,
), but the price is very steep: The work's extremely demanding, the hours are horrible, and you've got people's health and often lives in your hands and that's very scary. Unless you're a psychopath (most peeps aren't, ~ 1% are, clinically), you care. The audiologist will care. Worst case scenario? S/he will tell you that you'd best talk to xyz @ hospital zyx.And you'll be on your way!
Go go go! And good luck.
Regards from Mizzou,
PD
Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
I've shared my story before, but this thread brought it out of the coffers of my mind again. When I first started playing music over 12 years ago, I did a jam session in a drummer friend's basement. The guitarist brought a small combo in and proceeded to crank it... this one one of the first jam session experiences I'd ever been a part of so I had no idea what to expect. My ears hurt from the first bar we played, and I spent half the session tapping my notes on the fingerboard so I could keep one hand over one ear, and my other ear buried in my shoulder. No one would turn down, no one had any earplugs. The session ended soon after. BUT, I learned my lesson. After that ONE session I vowed never to practice or gig in any situation without ear protection, or without having it readily available. My drummer I work with regularly wears custom plugs and our rule of thumb is that if the volume gets uncomfortable for us wearing 'hi-fi' filters, it's *past* time to turn down. That rarely happens, though. Also, never forget to bring your earplugs to concerts that you are attending either... I can't go hear 99% of live gigs without needing my plugs.
So, fast-forward to 12 years later and after tons of gigs in various genres, my hearing is as good now as it was then. I used foam earplugs for the longest time but finally got some proper 'musician's earplugs', the Hearos Hi-Fi plugs. I always suggest these to my musician friends. If you can't afford custom plugs, I say go with these. They are usually around $12-15 for a set and last a good while. I've gone through 2 pairs in 2 years... not bad for a $30 investment.
In short, if you are a musician, you need earplugs. All the ego-centric guys out there who think plugs are 'un cool' or think they take away from the music are missing one very important point... if you can't HEAR, you can't make music!
So, fast-forward to 12 years later and after tons of gigs in various genres, my hearing is as good now as it was then. I used foam earplugs for the longest time but finally got some proper 'musician's earplugs', the Hearos Hi-Fi plugs. I always suggest these to my musician friends. If you can't afford custom plugs, I say go with these. They are usually around $12-15 for a set and last a good while. I've gone through 2 pairs in 2 years... not bad for a $30 investment.
In short, if you are a musician, you need earplugs. All the ego-centric guys out there who think plugs are 'un cool' or think they take away from the music are missing one very important point... if you can't HEAR, you can't make music!
Given your age, I am assuming that someone you trust makes your medical appointments and so on. In that case, that person NEEDS to make an appointment for you at a good audiology department. Those tend to be at university hospitals. So you don't get bad vibes from the clinic, it'll be a good idea if you talk to the person you're supposed to see and ask a few questions because: (a) You're an intelligent human-being; so what if you're fifteen? (b) You're the musician--you want to see if the audiologist has experience w/musicians; (c) If the appointment gets your blessing, you won't back outta it.
Here in the US, healthcare insurance of any sort doesn't cover the plugs, but the plugs cover your hearing, so at the price of (I just ordered one, so I know) an SX fiver + shipping, you've got yourself a treasure, man.
Don't mess this up; don't let anyone mess this up for you, like blow off making the appointment, refuse to pay, or whatever. YOU NEED THIS.
So you know what to do.
Good Luck!
PD
Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.
We had an unfortunate incident this weekend which is relevant to this thread. I feel I have to share because it adds more weight to the benefit of hearing protection at gigs.
The gig was on a Sydney harbour cruise, a X-mas party for a rather large and well known corporation. My band had bought in it's usual PA, but there had been arrangements made previously between the clients and the boat operators to use the boat's in-house PA system for speeches, announcements, etc. That PA system was basically an EV 15+ horn in each of the 4 corners of the room.
As the boat left Darling harbour, the CEO of the company decides it's time to give his welcome speech. At the time i was standing near the stage in the corner of the room directly below one of the in-house PA speaker boxes. I was chatting with my sound guy and basically getting ready for the gig, tuning my bass and luckily for me I was checking to make sure my IEM were working. Lucky how? Well when the CEO turned on the mic to make his speech, the in-house PA let rip with the loudest burst of feedback I've ever heard. No-one seemed to know how to stop it, and that feedback squeal lasted for what felt like an eternity but was realistically about 15 seconds. Even with my IEM in my ears, it was painful and very uncomfortable, and the problem was compounded by our proximity to the speakers and our inability to move further away from them due to the density of the gathered crowd.
Even before the feedback had stopped I noticed my sound guy doubled over in pain and grabbing at his ears. Everyone else had been able to uncover their ears when the feedback stopped, but poor Steve and I were closer to the speakers than anybody and he was clearly in trouble and in a lot of pain. The CEO continued his speech and I could tell every word was like a knife in Steve's ears. I got him outside and into a quiet area ASAP, but as always the deck of a moving boat is very windy and it was pretty clear to me the wind was just as painful to Steve as the loud noises. I dragged him into the band dressing room and finally some quiet and what I thought would be some pain relief for Steve. Not so! He was still grabbing at his left ear and was still in so much pain he could barely speak.
Fast forward to the doctors rooms the next day and Steve receives confirmation he has a perforated (i.e torn) ear drum in his left ear, the one that was facing the speaker. He'll be OK, but as someone who relies on his ears to make his living, he's very scared about how well he'll recover and whether or not he'll be able to work again.
As for me - well .... i was standing literally right next to Steve and I'm fine. I had my IEM inserted into my ears. I always knew IEM would save my hearing but I never thought it was be in such a dramatic circumstance.
The gig was on a Sydney harbour cruise, a X-mas party for a rather large and well known corporation. My band had bought in it's usual PA, but there had been arrangements made previously between the clients and the boat operators to use the boat's in-house PA system for speeches, announcements, etc. That PA system was basically an EV 15+ horn in each of the 4 corners of the room.
As the boat left Darling harbour, the CEO of the company decides it's time to give his welcome speech. At the time i was standing near the stage in the corner of the room directly below one of the in-house PA speaker boxes. I was chatting with my sound guy and basically getting ready for the gig, tuning my bass and luckily for me I was checking to make sure my IEM were working. Lucky how? Well when the CEO turned on the mic to make his speech, the in-house PA let rip with the loudest burst of feedback I've ever heard. No-one seemed to know how to stop it, and that feedback squeal lasted for what felt like an eternity but was realistically about 15 seconds. Even with my IEM in my ears, it was painful and very uncomfortable, and the problem was compounded by our proximity to the speakers and our inability to move further away from them due to the density of the gathered crowd.
Even before the feedback had stopped I noticed my sound guy doubled over in pain and grabbing at his ears. Everyone else had been able to uncover their ears when the feedback stopped, but poor Steve and I were closer to the speakers than anybody and he was clearly in trouble and in a lot of pain. The CEO continued his speech and I could tell every word was like a knife in Steve's ears. I got him outside and into a quiet area ASAP, but as always the deck of a moving boat is very windy and it was pretty clear to me the wind was just as painful to Steve as the loud noises. I dragged him into the band dressing room and finally some quiet and what I thought would be some pain relief for Steve. Not so! He was still grabbing at his left ear and was still in so much pain he could barely speak.
Fast forward to the doctors rooms the next day and Steve receives confirmation he has a perforated (i.e torn) ear drum in his left ear, the one that was facing the speaker. He'll be OK, but as someone who relies on his ears to make his living, he's very scared about how well he'll recover and whether or not he'll be able to work again.
As for me - well .... i was standing literally right next to Steve and I'm fine. I had my IEM inserted into my ears. I always knew IEM would save my hearing but I never thought it was be in such a dramatic circumstance.
Petebass: Sorry about your friend.
I myself had a perforated eardrum and it took several years for it to heal. I still cannot hear high frequencies from this ear. Tapping the index against the thumb at 8 inches from my ear produces nothing I can ear (of course the other ear works well).
This forced me behind a desk when I was in the military as I could not shoot a rifle (good thing is I got an experience I could put on a resume, bad thing is I was not allowed to shoot a rifle!!!) and also forces me to wear plugs at every practice, gig and concert, even loud events like motocross races (something I am found of).
If I hear loud sound for too long without protection I actually start losing my balance, that is how bad it is, and if I go on a cruise, I will feel the movements for days after reaching harbor. People don't realize it but your inner ear is not *that* inner and any damage in this area will radiate.
So that's what your buddy will have to go through.
I myself had a perforated eardrum and it took several years for it to heal. I still cannot hear high frequencies from this ear. Tapping the index against the thumb at 8 inches from my ear produces nothing I can ear (of course the other ear works well).
This forced me behind a desk when I was in the military as I could not shoot a rifle (good thing is I got an experience I could put on a resume, bad thing is I was not allowed to shoot a rifle!!!) and also forces me to wear plugs at every practice, gig and concert, even loud events like motocross races (something I am found of).
If I hear loud sound for too long without protection I actually start losing my balance, that is how bad it is, and if I go on a cruise, I will feel the movements for days after reaching harbor. People don't realize it but your inner ear is not *that* inner and any damage in this area will radiate.
So that's what your buddy will have to go through.
I subscribe to a news letter put out by Peoples Pharmacy.com and this bit of info just came in today about a possible new low-cost, non-medical treatment for tinnitus: http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2009/12/31/specialized-sound-tracks-ease-tinnitus/
PeoplesPharmacy.com is a serious organization that investigates all matter of medical issues. If you're interested in the latest info on medical and homeopathic treatments, you may want to check it out.
PeoplesPharmacy.com is a serious organization that investigates all matter of medical issues. If you're interested in the latest info on medical and homeopathic treatments, you may want to check it out.
I picked up a custom set of ER-15 Etymotic ear plugs last November from a local audiologist. If you're in need of a pair (-9,-15,-25) and live near 90602 zip code in the Los Angeles area, contact:
Dr. Michael Davis, Audiologist
8135 S. Painter Ave., Suite 200
Whittier, CA 90602
[email protected]
562 945 6134
800 953 2111
He charges $180. Include purchase code MU with your email. Payment is in full at the first consultation.
Dr. Davis is a reputable audiologist with many years in his field and is fully licensed. He maintains an office with full audiology testing and hearing aid products available. (Side note: I also had my hearing range tested) His service is excellent and delivery was prompt. It takes two trips for your custom ear plugs: one for the obtaining your ear canal size (with fast drying silicon) and the second for fitting/pickup.
A few things to know before you order:
1) You can order a mixed set of attenuators(buttons) (ie, -15 & -25) or you can order additional set(s) of buttons. A "solid" button can also be ordered that get aprox. -30db.
2) You can order a set of solid ear plugs w/o buttons. I ordered these fully countersunk(see below). I use these for sleeping and as much sound reduction as possible. Very comfortable with no pressure like you get from the foam ones.
3) Five colors of attenuators are available (clear, beige, brown,red,blue). If you order multiple sets, a different color for each set may be useful.
4) The -9 is usually not enough attenuation for amplified instruments Invalid Link Removed
5) The -25 cuts about 12db more highs at 8Khz ( Invalid Link Removed )
6) The ear plugs can be ordered with a non-removable string attached to reduce the possibility of losing them. The string is long enough to be placed on the backside of your neck. It's loose fitting and is not really noticeable in any way. It's very convenient for removing your ear plugs between songs, especially at rehearsal where you might have a discussion going on between tunes.
7) The ear plug can be ordered with more(partial, full) or less(standard) countersinking (fills more of the outer ear opening). To me, this helps keep the ear plug more in place. It doesn't allow you to "push" the plug in tighter because it has to fit into the outer ear opening. Something to discuss with the Dr. Invalid Link Removed My earplugs are "standard" model with no string attached.
8) The molds for your ear plugs are kept for 30 days after production. I suggest consider order an extra set of the plugs in case you lose one or if you want to keep one set at home and one set at rehearsal.
9) The attenuator are removable so the plug can be cleaned with water and mild soap.
10) Be careful when removing the plugs. The attenuators are not glued in so if you push too hard in the wrong place,they will pop out and possibly be lost. Gently push on the outer edges as you work them out. Trying to remove them with one pull doesn't seem to work very well. I've accidentally popped out the attenuators a couple of times trying this. The attenuators are easily inserted back on the the plug.
11) The Dr. told me that if you put a bit of petroleum jelly on the outer edge of the plug, it will keep a better seal.
12) The earplugs allow you to hear your "internal" voice better while singing.
13) If I were ever to reorder, I would order mine with the string attached and discussed the value of counter sinking in more detail with the Dr. It seems to me(by looking at the pics) that with partial counter sinking, there's more room for the string to be embedded and would have more material to hold the string in place.
14) When you first get your plugs, I suggest practicing inserting/removing them several times so you get the "feel" for how the go into your ear properly (they can be inserted incorrectly) and you find out how to easily remove them with as little pressure as possible.
Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional. Please direct any questions/concerns you may have to him/her.
Dr. Michael Davis, Audiologist
8135 S. Painter Ave., Suite 200
Whittier, CA 90602
[email protected]
562 945 6134
800 953 2111
He charges $180. Include purchase code MU with your email. Payment is in full at the first consultation.
Dr. Davis is a reputable audiologist with many years in his field and is fully licensed. He maintains an office with full audiology testing and hearing aid products available. (Side note: I also had my hearing range tested) His service is excellent and delivery was prompt. It takes two trips for your custom ear plugs: one for the obtaining your ear canal size (with fast drying silicon) and the second for fitting/pickup.
A few things to know before you order:
1) You can order a mixed set of attenuators(buttons) (ie, -15 & -25) or you can order additional set(s) of buttons. A "solid" button can also be ordered that get aprox. -30db.
2) You can order a set of solid ear plugs w/o buttons. I ordered these fully countersunk(see below). I use these for sleeping and as much sound reduction as possible. Very comfortable with no pressure like you get from the foam ones.
3) Five colors of attenuators are available (clear, beige, brown,red,blue). If you order multiple sets, a different color for each set may be useful.
4) The -9 is usually not enough attenuation for amplified instruments Invalid Link Removed
5) The -25 cuts about 12db more highs at 8Khz ( Invalid Link Removed )
6) The ear plugs can be ordered with a non-removable string attached to reduce the possibility of losing them. The string is long enough to be placed on the backside of your neck. It's loose fitting and is not really noticeable in any way. It's very convenient for removing your ear plugs between songs, especially at rehearsal where you might have a discussion going on between tunes.
7) The ear plug can be ordered with more(partial, full) or less(standard) countersinking (fills more of the outer ear opening). To me, this helps keep the ear plug more in place. It doesn't allow you to "push" the plug in tighter because it has to fit into the outer ear opening. Something to discuss with the Dr. Invalid Link Removed My earplugs are "standard" model with no string attached.
8) The molds for your ear plugs are kept for 30 days after production. I suggest consider order an extra set of the plugs in case you lose one or if you want to keep one set at home and one set at rehearsal.
9) The attenuator are removable so the plug can be cleaned with water and mild soap.
10) Be careful when removing the plugs. The attenuators are not glued in so if you push too hard in the wrong place,they will pop out and possibly be lost. Gently push on the outer edges as you work them out. Trying to remove them with one pull doesn't seem to work very well. I've accidentally popped out the attenuators a couple of times trying this. The attenuators are easily inserted back on the the plug.
11) The Dr. told me that if you put a bit of petroleum jelly on the outer edge of the plug, it will keep a better seal.
12) The earplugs allow you to hear your "internal" voice better while singing.
13) If I were ever to reorder, I would order mine with the string attached and discussed the value of counter sinking in more detail with the Dr. It seems to me(by looking at the pics) that with partial counter sinking, there's more room for the string to be embedded and would have more material to hold the string in place.
14) When you first get your plugs, I suggest practicing inserting/removing them several times so you get the "feel" for how the go into your ear properly (they can be inserted incorrectly) and you find out how to easily remove them with as little pressure as possible.
Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional. Please direct any questions/concerns you may have to him/her.
I agree 200% with everything you said.
I bought 2 sets, one that acts like an IEM and covers the outside of the ear fully and one set that goes way in the ear and is almost invisible to anyone once its in my ear. I keep a -9db in one set and a -15db in the other so that if I need to change during the night I simply switch the earplugs.
I've had them for 2 years and they have saved my hearing and because my ears don't ring at the end of the night I can get to sleep faster and stay asleep longer after the gig. No more taking 3 hours to wind down after the gig.
I use Sensaphonics because the plugs are made out of soft silicon and I can chew gum and play at the same time and the seal never breaks.
I am the only person in my band that uses plugs, and at first the other members were against my using them, because they thought it would be difficult to communicate with me. But now they aren't even aware when I have them in. I use the customs at gigs and the Hearos or ER-20's (they are the same) at rehearsals and sound checks, because I can take them in and out at the drop of a hat.
I tried regular IEM's originally, but found that I turned them up so loud that they were beginning to damage my hearing. There was a study done at Vanderbilt University that showed people with IEM's tended to have them turned up to loud' because they were trying to get the same feeling that they had with floor wedges. When I ditched the IEM's and went to custom earplugs my playing got better and I could hear more than I could with the regular IEM's.
Here's a link to that study. The last paragraph is the most important [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I also use the off the shelf Hearos or ER-20's (they are the same) when I am out for the night or just need quick in and out protection. They cost $12 a pair or $1 a month over a year. Pay that money or keep asking other people to repeat themselves or bug your spouse or partner for the rest of your life.
Or customs at $180 will cost you $15 a month over a year. I don't know anyone who can't afford $15 a month.
A friend (drummer!) was nearly drooling to me in his rabid enthusiasm about the perks of the IEM vs. the passive musician's earplugs that I use (ER-25). I hadn't read the article you cited and I thank you for it (man, there's so much that we'd benefit from reading)! I could only make an educated guess about how to reply to the drummer's challenge. So I reasoned with him about how, if a musician has the ability right at his/her fingertips to turn up the volume in the "earplugs," habituation, frustration (it's always there) and so many factors would virtually guarantee that this would be the case. And that would defeat or at least greatly reduce the IEM's protective purpose. This would especially apply to people with a history of "liking it loud," of which both of us are guilty. Why repeat history? Sadly, he shuffled away with a grin and proceeded to repeat history.
Of course, those of us who use musician's earplugs need to be mindful that we could be subject to the same "crank up the volume" problem, just "solving" it in a different way, which would be by turning up our amps, monitors, and so on. However, given that one wears the musician's earplugs expecting that everything will sound lower--ambient and musical sound--I suspect that there's less of a tendency among musicians to get all fussy and crank up the volume like their IEM brethren/sistren
Furthermore, as mentioned earlier, we do not have fingertip access to the damage-inducing devices. But...it's very important to remember that anyone can succumb to the temptation I mentioned. Please don't!These are merely my musings about what has kept me a loyal ER-25 user. Ah, but the science? Thank you for that, bunny! Your link leads to a professional article based on research at a premiere university: As such, it's based on real data, and thus beats with a stick our idiosycratic speculations.
Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.
I still think the IEM's are a good idea. If anything, they still reduce the noise, and you don't need to crank them louder than the outside noise to still hear.
The article does not "agree" with you, and the disagreement is based on what carefully tested musicians did to their ears with the IEMs. They cranked the volume up overwhelmingly!
How come? Let's say that a pair of particular IEMs reduces the incoming ambient sound by about 20 dB, like a comparable passive 20 dB "hi-fi" earplug set. But there's a problem with the IEMs: You're tempted (and according to research, usually choose) to turn the volume up way above the healthy level. Why? Example: The music is playing at 105 dB. The crowd is yelling at about the same sound-pressure. The IEMs reduce your perception of all incoming sound--the music and the crowd's tumult, by 20 dB. You have the music in the IEMs set at 85 dB, but you've got ambient crowd noise flooding it with an identical level of noise. This, according to the study, leads musicians to turn up the volume so that they can hear the music more clearly over the crowd's noise because they can so easily, and they do this to such a disastrous degree that they end up beating their auditory systems to the original tune of 105 dB.
It takes an educated consumer to buck the trend. The article deals with people who made serious mistakes. It is very possible that you do not make them. So, bottom line: If you find that you can listen to the IEMs at roughly the same volume as the crowd-noise, or if you play to relatively (or totally) non-rowdy crowds, then I wouldn't pick an argument with you if you paid me. I wouldn't anyhow: You have to do what works for you.
Best,
Hill
Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.
