Hearing Loss and Ear Plugs

[megadan]

In severe cases the ringing is so loud other people can actually hear it.

Sorry to hear about your condition.

Was that a joke though? I can't tell. I don't think other people could ever hear your tinnitus, it's not a sound being produced... it just your brain being 'tricked' into thinking sound is occurring because the tiny hairs in your ear have been bent or damaged from long exposure to high SPLs.

 

[Quadcam]

no joke
Objective Tinnitus

Objective tinnitus is a much rarer form of tinnitus and consists of head noises that are audible to other people in addition to the sufferer.

 

[rezin]

so i've been using some earplugs i picked up at a music store a few years ago, for playing with other people and concerts, they were worked but they were never comfortable. it turns out, they're the ER20s. so now i'm looking into the custom molded ones. i was told this: The fees for the Musician's Earplugs, hearing evaluation, Otoscopic
evaluation, attenuation linearity check and two office visits are bundled
into one package price of $200.

does that sound decent? i'm a drummer also so should i look into a higher db filter?

 

[PsyDocHill]

so i've been using some earplugs i picked up at a music store a few years ago, for playing with other people and concerts, they were worked but they were never comfortable. it turns out, they're the ER20s. so now i'm looking into the custom molded ones. i was told this: The fees for the Musician's Earplugs, hearing evaluation, Otoscopic
evaluation, attenuation linearity check and two office visits are bundledinto one package price of $200.

does that sound decent? i'm a drummer also so should i look into a higher db filter?

Good Evening/Night/etc.,

Yeah, that's a whole lot for a very low price. If you've looked up the practitioner/s involved and all's legit, you can't beat it.

Some facts: The highest attenuation you'll get with custom earplugs is 25dB, and, like all attenuation figures, the above reflects average-attenuation across the measured spectrum, which appears to be up to around 8kHz, right about where the last pure-tone is tested for a traditional air-conductance audiogram (English: Like your typical hearing-test). Regardless of the name on the earplugs, the actual filter is made by or under the supervision of Etymonics. Always. This I was told by one of the head honchos @ a top-5 hospital's audiology department.

Given that you're a drummer, I'd HIGHLY recommend that you go with that 25dB filter for both ears, if you choose to go this route. Note that the only "custom" aspect to these earplugs is the earmold. The dB-filter is mass-produced and removeable. So, if, say, a person wants to use the 9dB filters for one application, the 15dBs for another, and the 25dBs for yet another, all s/he's got to do is fork out the money and purchase the filters. Some people use differently attenuating filters for each of their (usually) two ears, but I wouldn't recommend playing with aural fire b/c that's what that is.

There are, of course, earplugs that attenuate far more, but they are generic foam plugs you can get for near-nothing at your local drugstore. These ear-stuffers are without the relatively linear attenuation you get from the custom and other "hi-fi" plugs. They bring the incoming hi freq dBs w-a-y down, often beyond the 40s. That results in the muffled sound that causes most musician users to rip those things out of their ears, which is totally understandable but defeats the purpose.

Caveat Emptor: Some drummers find that their kits generate so much noise that they go with over-the-ears protection, i.e., special "active" headphones that reduce ambient sound up to 33dB and plug into the board or such. Then, you can control how loud you want the incoming signal to be. If you go that route, you need to be very careful: Like in-the-ear monitors often seen in the ears of big-money players, you can end up cranking up your headphones, thus listening to the music at levels above the actual volume of the entire band. That's not good. It sounds dumb, but we all know how high playing music can get us...so high that we "lose our senses," if you will. I know: I used to live there in my 20s. The loudness-induced trips were fun (high-volume is intoxicating for many), but the tinnitus I'm lucky that I have no hearing-loss. Now, older, wiser, and sadder, permanently cured of YMIS, I always wear my ER-25 plugs when jamming or performing.

Good Luck.

Note: My comment should in no way be construed as a substitute for a face-to-face consult with a graduate-level (e.g., audiologist or ENT physician) hearing professional.

 

[Moving Target]

Speaking as a British safety professional, I can tell you that the law states that ear protection must be worn where the sound energy absorbed exceeds 85 dB(A) over an eight hour shift.

I have hearing damage in my left ear. I can't hear anything at around 8000 Hz until it reaches 50 dB(A). My mid-range and bottom-end response is very good - I can pick up sound at 20 dB(A) across the 2000-6000 Hz range. Unfortunately that means that my treble response is lost in the mids and basses. In a crowded room, all I hear is a steady rumble, and I can't make out speech because the "t" and "s" sounds tend to drop out.

I also have a steady whistling tinnitus in my left ear.

I've obtained a pair of professional-standard ear-moulded filters which help me a lot. They cut the damaging frequencies out but I can still hear conversation on stage.

 

[rezin]

Good Evening/Night/etc.,

Yeah, that's a whole lot for a very low price. If you've looked up the practitioner/s involved and all's legit, you can't beat it.

Some facts: The highest attenuation you'll get with custom earplugs is 25dB, and, like all attenuation figures, the above reflects average-attenuation across the measured spectrum, which appears to be up to around 8kHz, right about where the last pure-tone is tested for a traditional air-conductance audiogram (English: Like your typical hearing-test). Regardless of the name on the earplugs, the actual filter is made by or under the supervision of Etymonics. Always. This I was told by one of the head honchos @ a top-5 hospital's audiology department.

Given that you're a drummer, I'd HIGHLY recommend that you go with that 25dB filter for both ears, if you choose to go this route. Note that the only "custom" aspect to these earplugs is the earmold. The dB-filter is mass-produced and removeable. So, if, say, a person wants to use the 9dB filters for one application, the 15dBs for another, and the 25dBs for yet another, all s/he's got to do is fork out the money and purchase the filters. Some people use differently attenuating filters for each of their (usually) two ears, but I wouldn't recommend playing with aural fire b/c that's what that is.

There are, of course, earplugs that attenuate far more, but they are generic foam plugs you can get for near-nothing at your local drugstore. These ear-stuffers are without the relatively linear attenuation you get from the custom and other "hi-fi" plugs. They bring the incoming hi freq dBs w-a-y down, often beyond the 40s. That results in the muffled sound that causes most musician users to rip those things out of their ears, which is totally understandable but defeats the purpose.

Caveat Emptor: Some drummers find that their kits generate so much noise that they go with over-the-ears protection, i.e., special "active" headphones that reduce ambient sound up to 33dB and plug into the board or such. Then, you can control how loud you want the incoming signal to be. If you go that route, you need to be very careful: Like in-the-ear monitors often seen in the ears of big-money players, you can end up cranking up those tiny in-ear monitors, thus listening to the music at levels above the actual volume of the entire band. That's not good. It sounds dumb, but we all know how high playing music can get us...so high that we "lose our senses," if you will. I know: I used to live there in my 20s. The loudness-induced trips were fun (high-volume is intoxicating for many), but the tinnitus I'm lucky that I have no hearing-loss. Now, older, wiser, and sadder, permanently cured of YMIS, I always wear my ER-25 plugs when jamming or performing.

Good Luck.

Note: My comment should in no way be construed as a substitute for a face-to-face consult with a graduate-level (e.g., audiologist or ENT physician) hearing professional.

thanks,

i think i definitely need to go with the 25db attenuation, i tried to find those active headphones but didn't have much luck. the non active isolation headphones i found didn't have the greatest reviews

or maybe i should just stop drumming, this is kind of a scary thing.

 

[Quadcam]

get these http://memphisdrumshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1406

 

[PsyDocHill]

thanks,

i think i definitely need to go with the 25db attenuation, i tried to find those active headphones but didn't have much luck. the non active isolation headphones i found didn't have the greatest reviews

or maybe i should just stop drumming, this is kind of a scary thing.

Hey, rezin! I used to live in Madison back in the 90s. I miss the winters: Seriously! I love lots of snow. And wow do I miss Lake Mendota, and.... Alright, to business.

Okay: What I recommend that you do is the following....
(a) Contact the UW's audiology dept and ask if they've got experience with over-the-ear hearing protection for musicians, b/c you're a drummer. If they have such experience, proceed to ask about active headphones & set-up an appointment. Those "noise-cancelling" wonders are all the rage with the audiophiles; you'd think that people who actually make music (like us) would have access to such headphones, with the addition of a measly plug. There's got to be something for you out there, or the world isn't a fair place . (b) If you've had no success with the UW peeps, I'd go to the gurus. Why not? Do it the old-fashioned way! Get on the horn with the right person @, say, Modern Drummer and ask for ideas. These music-mag workers usually get high when you ask them anything even remotely related to their encyclopedic knowledge. Think about it: They get samples of everything that's produced for their particular niche.

Between those two options, you should be able to make an educated decision that won't rob you of too much sleep. Besides, you're not making any commitment. Spend some money after you do the exhaustive research, and if things work for you, well that's wonderful (but get those ears checked periodically). If you absolutely hate it, then sell the kit and play bass !

Man, I miss Bascom Hill. I used to live on Monroe St, about a mile south of the stadium. Go, Badgers.

Here's that note again: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional. I treat people with severe mental-illness. That's quite enough, thank you.

 

[Laurence Lee]

I've been playing bass full time for give or take 40 (gulp) years and I have a good case of tinnitis. I've usually worn earplugs but you can't escape from the crash cymbal near your right ear for some reason! I play the first set without the yellow industrial plugs, then pop fresh ones in. I keep my bass rig low to the ground too. I think the iPod at the gym is a culprit too. Protect what you have left.....What did he say?

 

[BlacksHole]

I've had the custom molded earplugs for between 5 and 10 years now. My problem is they don't seem to fit as well now as they used to and therefore block less sound. It seems that the custom molds have a limited lifetime before they need to be replaced (they get stiffer). Does anyone know what their "lifetime" is?

 

[PsyDocHill]

I've had the custom molded earplugs for between 5 and 10 years now. My problem is they don't seem to fit as well now as they used to and therefore block less sound. It seems that the custom molds have a limited lifetime before they need to be replaced (they get stiffer). Does anyone know what their "lifetime" is?

If they're blocking less sound and are stiffer, it's time for new molds, no doubt about it. Also, the audiologist should check the filters to ascertain whether they're attenuating as they did in their youth.

Life-expectancy of these plugs (molds + filters) varies due to so many factors that vary from player to player: Freq. of use, climate, contact of filter/s w/fluids, ear-canal "skin chemistry," etc.

Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.

 

[PsyDocHill]

I've been playing bass full time for give or take 40 (gulp) years and I have a good case of tinnitis. I've usually worn earplugs but you can't escape from the crash cymbal near your right ear for some reason! I play the first set without the yellow industrial plugs, then pop fresh ones in. I keep my bass rig low to the ground too. I think the iPod at the gym is a culprit too. Protect what you have left.....What did he say?

"Protect what you have left?!" Tinnitus does not always accompany NIHL and vice-versa. I've got bilateral T but I've got no hearing-loss; I can even catch pesky students w/that mosquito ringtones (oh is that fun) that supposedly is undetectable by people ages 20 and up. I passed that dazed & confused chronological landmark quite a while back. Plus tinnitus is pretty common among adults in their middle years, even those who've got no significant history of noise-exposure or use of ototoxic meds / "recreational" drugs. I hope you're coping w/it okay.

Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.

 

[South_Bass]

I'm only 17 but tinnatus is a big worry for me. When I press both hands up against my ears I cab hear a clear ringing noise. Is this the first sign of having damnaged hearing?

Let me know

Thanks

 

[PsyDocHill]

I'm only 17 but tinnatus is a big worry for me. When I press both hands up against my ears I cab hear a clear ringing noise. Is this the first sign of having damnaged hearing?

Let me know

Thanks

South Bass, hi;

(a) Please read my postings on this thread. They are, to the best of my knowledge, accurate and tell it "like it is," which is, in fact, reassuring for most.

(b) "Damage" is a very general term, and its existence or absence must be evaluated by an expert face-to-face. Never take online info as anything more than a possibly useful bit of advice (or, more often, totally useless piece of shock-value-only ranting).

(c) You will need to make an appointment with an audiologist who has experience working with musicians; I cannot emphasize that enough: Avoid like the plague audiologists who've no expertise with our kind. They tend to, among other things, really tick us off. But don't blow it off: Make the appointment NOW--call NOW.

(d) You will want to come to the appointment equipped with information Re roughly how long you have been perceiving this ringing, did it seem to develop after a particular exposure to high dB-whatever, after an illness, while taking an Rx, etc. And, of course, you know the history of your playing, show-attendance, music-listening habits, etc.: Share it all with the practitioner. S/he's your friend. If you get vibes to the contrary, request a referral to someone with a heart.

(e) More often than not, things turn out to be much better than our worried minds expect. Avoid like Ebola anyone who gives you "I told you so" or "better save what's left" dumb, cruel, sadistic (and so on) "advice." Such insensitive people are hiding major insecurities by hurting others' feelings and need professional help, themselves, at the very least in acquiring social skills and developing average-and-above empathy and humility. These characters don't know what they're saying; they just like hearing themselves talk, especially dramatically. They constitute a health-hazard.

(f) Good luck. You're very young. It's great that you're attending to your hearing-health now. Most your age think nothing can touch them. You're ahead of the curve, so get a referral, please, and, always, avoid loud sounds (subways are loud too) or wear appropriate earplugs when in loud settings.

Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.

 

[Sabbathfan82]

Whew, what a long read. As someone with already moderate hearing loss (birth defect) what kind of protection would yall recommend for someone who only does personal sessions. Ear plugs are not an option for me since I wear hearing aids.

 

[PsyDocHill]

Whew, what a long read. As someone with already moderate hearing loss (birth defect) what kind of protection would yall recommend for someone who only does personal sessions. Ear plugs are not an option for me since I wear hearing aids.

Yeah.... I'm glad you waded through the material. Musicians are becoming more attuned (ouch) to this previously terribly-neglected area: Hearing. The music industry is also, begrudgingly, waking up, sort of in the way the auto-industry finally started installing airbags in vehicles.

It's excellent that you are aware that you need hearing protection, regardless of how much you play and irrespective of your current hearing condition. But no one should even attempt to give you generic advice Re what you should do to protect your hearing, Sabbathfan. Except this advice:

Please go to the audiology department of your choice--a university hospital dept.'s strongly recommended--so that the multidisciplinary team there can provide you with proper answers and solution/s. It would be good for you to consult with the prescriber of your hearing aids first.

I would suspect that part of your treatment-plan would include over-the-ears protection such as ear-muffs. But that is for the proper experts to determine.

Please don't delay.

Take care.

Note: None of the above is to be misconstrued as a substitute for input from a hearing specialist. Anyone with hearing-concerns must make an appointment for evaluation and intervention/treatment @ a dept. of audiology.

 

[Sabbathfan82]

Thanks for your response, I've an upcoming appointment with my ent (been seeing her for nearly 20 yrs) anyways due to an aid being in the shop. (Man, mono-hearing sucks ) I'll be sure to ask her then. I was just curious to see if there were any commercial ear muffs, the running theme of the thread seemed to be that commercially available gear was nearly as effective at a fraction of the cost of the special ordered stuff.

 

[The Artist]

Hi just a quick question:
We reherse between 105 and 115db. I have always used earplug (not mucj choise at those volumes...) I use a pair with a 15db cut. Do you think thats enough?

 

[Vorago]

I'm having my own custom fit earplugs made tomorrow!

Just a question, the 'heaviest' standard filter is -25 dB.

Do you think this enough? We rehearse in a small room and my guitarplayers are pretty loud.

 

[PsyDocHill]

Thanks for your response, I've an upcoming appointment with my ent (been seeing her for nearly 20 yrs) anyways due to an aid being in the shop. (Man, mono-hearing sucks ) I'll be sure to ask her then. I was just curious to see if there were any commercial ear muffs, the running theme of the thread seemed to be that commercially available gear was nearly as effective at a fraction of the cost of the special ordered stuff.

Hey, Sabbath,

The fairly decent mass-produced ER-20 plugs have been discussed on this forum, and, yeah, they're about $10 from the right vendor. There are also generic over-the-ears muffs that are not as cheap but don't break the bank.

All the same, generic is just that in Re to hearing-protection: One-size-fits all. When it comes to in-the-ear protection, this often leads to suboptimal insertion and/or discomfort. For those and other reasons, I advise people to spend the extra cash and get custom plugs. Those have earmolds that, by definition, fit the customer's ear-canals perfectly. But you know all about ear-molds, based on your 20-years of hearing-aid use.

Whether or not there are custom over-the-ear hearing-protection systems (or other systems for hearing-aid wearing folks) I don't know, but I urge you to check. If there are custom systems, get one. This will be money well spent. Given that you already are plugged into ENT/audiology, you're very likely to get a satisfactory answer to your questions, and I'm glad about that.

I'm rooting for ya.

~Hill

Note: The information provided herein should never be misconstrued as a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with a licensed, graduate-level hearing professional.