Hearing Loss and Ear Plugs

[BrBss]

Obviously, high frequencies are the ones that tend to be lost first during hearing loss.

But is hearing loss at all frequency dependent, or is it just pure volume (given a certain exposure time) that determines damage? If it is just pure volume, I can imagine that low frequencies are MUCH more dangerous, for two reasons:

1) It takes more dB's for low frequencies to "sound" as loud as high frequencies.
2) Most earplugs block HF much better that LF.

Thoughts?

 

[lareamond]

Having had hearing loss since the age of three, and gradually getting worse, I will say I wish I protected my hearing more when I went through my "grunge" stage in the mid 90's. That's when I had both my stereos (or headphones) and hearing aids cranked to the max to dangerous levels just to dance around like a moron.

I had my hearing tested recently because I needed a hearing aid upgrade. Unbelievable how bad my hearing is now. According to my most recent audiogram results (I have them all right in front of me), my right and left start at 120dB for 4KHz. That's a jet engine. The one prior to that in 2003 was 98dB.

To answer the above poster's question, hearing loss is measured with both frequency AND volume. My (natural) hearing cuts out at 4KHz for ambience, but I can hear things at 3KHz and below, provided they're the right volume. From the paper I'm looking at right now:

250 Hz - 90dB
500Hz - 95dB
1KHz - 100 dB
2KHz - 105 dB
3.5KHz - 115 dB
4KHz - 120 dB
8KHz - 120 dB (highest the recording machinery goes)

In other words, I can hear drums and bass at low volumes. This is because drums and bass operate at a different frequency. Everything else takes a higher volume because of frequency differences. I can hear guitars as long as they cut through at approx 3.5 KHz or 115 dB.

Hope this clarifies some things. Might be different with everybody, but this is my personal experience from 20 years of hearing loss and hearing tests.

 

[BrBss]

Having had hearing loss since the age of three, and gradually getting worse, I will say I wish I protected my hearing more when I went through my "grunge" stage in the mid 90's. That's when I had both my stereos (or headphones) and hearing aids cranked to the max to dangerous levels just to dance around like a moron.

I had my hearing tested recently because I needed a hearing aid upgrade. Unbelievable how bad my hearing is now. According to my most recent audiogram results (I have them all right in front of me), my right and left start at 120dB for 4KHz. That's a jet engine. The one prior to that in 2003 was 98dB.

To answer the above poster's question, hearing loss is measured with both frequency AND volume. My (natural) hearing cuts out at 4KHz for ambience, but I can hear things at 3KHz and below, provided they're the right volume. From the paper I'm looking at right now:

250 Hz - 90dB
500Hz - 95dB
1KHz - 100 dB
2KHz - 105 dB
3.5KHz - 115 dB
4KHz - 120 dB
8KHz - 120 dB (highest the recording machinery goes)

In other words, I can hear drums and bass at low volumes. This is because drums and bass operate at a different frequency. Everything else takes a higher volume because of frequency differences. I can hear guitars as long as they cut through at approx 3.5 KHz or 115 dB.

Hope this clarifies some things. Might be different with everybody, but this is my personal experience from 20 years of hearing loss and hearing tests.

Right, damage affects hearing different frequencies differently, but I'm wondering if different frequencies cause different amounts of damage. (Sounds like a quote from Yogi Berra or something)

EDIT: For example, does a 120dB sinusoid at 30 Hz cause the same amount of hearing loss as a 120dB sinusoid at 1kHz?

 

[lareamond]

Short answer, yes. Long answer, yes.

 

[Rockmusician]

I tried earplugs and had a hard time hearing everything. A guitar player in my old band has permanent tinitus. I hear fine depsite the fact that I have been playing for more than 30 years. I have played with some very loud guitarists and drummers who hit extremely hard. I think to some extent, the amount of damage you may suffer is biological. Having said that, I would recommend some sort of ear protection if you feel it doesn't interfer with your playing. The main problem is that many musicians crank their stage volume when they don't need to. You are better off keeping stage volume to a minimum and letting your P.A. do the work. You will save your hearing and the band will sound better.

 

[PrietoBass]

Having had hearing loss since the age of three, and gradually getting worse, I will say I wish I protected my hearing more when I went through my "grunge" stage in the mid 90's. That's when I had both my stereos (or headphones) and hearing aids cranked to the max to dangerous levels just to dance around like a moron.

I had my hearing tested recently because I needed a hearing aid upgrade. Unbelievable how bad my hearing is now. According to my most recent audiogram results (I have them all right in front of me), my right and left start at 120dB for 4KHz. That's a jet engine. The one prior to that in 2003 was 98dB.

To answer the above poster's question, hearing loss is measured with both frequency AND volume. My (natural) hearing cuts out at 4KHz for ambience, but I can hear things at 3KHz and below, provided they're the right volume. From the paper I'm looking at right now:

250 Hz - 90dB
500Hz - 95dB
1KHz - 100 dB
2KHz - 105 dB
3.5KHz - 115 dB
4KHz - 120 dB
8KHz - 120 dB (highest the recording machinery goes)

In other words, I can hear drums and bass at low volumes. This is because drums and bass operate at a different frequency. Everything else takes a higher volume because of frequency differences. I can hear guitars as long as they cut through at approx 3.5 KHz or 115 dB.

Hope this clarifies some things. Might be different with everybody, but this is my personal experience from 20 years of hearing loss and hearing tests.

My hearing loss is not as severe as yours but nevertheless, hearing loss is very frustrating to have, especially for the musician.

My results are (right ear):

250 Hz - 20 dB
500 Hz - 15 dB
750 Hz - 40 dB
1 KHz - 80 dB
2 KHz - 70 dB
3 KHz - 65 dB
4 KHz - 70 dB
5 KHz - 60 dB
6 KHz - 60 db

My left ear results are similar. I'm getting my hearing aids in a few weeks.

I've done some research, and this is what I'm planning to do.

Bass -> Boss TU-2 Tuner -> SansAmp BDDI -> Boss GEB-7 EQ -> LiveWire ABY. From here, one channel to amp and/or FOH. The other channel goes into a Behringer Xenix 802 mixer. I'll have the sound guy (church) give me a feed to the mixer. I can control volume over the mix from the mixer and listen via a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 770M headphones (can still wear my hearing aids). The 770Ms supposedly attenuate up to 35dB, so that should help tremendously in reducing stage noise. I'll still be able to hear the kickdrum and cymbals over that, but at much reduced levels. IOW, my mixer and headphones will be my own personal monitoring system.

I've tried this setup at home at it works (with a pair of Vic Firth drummer's headphones and my son playing his guitar plugged to a Bugera V22 fairly loud). I've yet to try it in a live setting.

Anyway, this is what I'm planning to do. I don't care about looks one bit, as long as I can protect the hearing I have left, be able to hear the changes and play.

 

[markusj]

We have that problem of Volume, we have 4 hr band practices once a fortnight and i am starting to get the ringin. I tried plugs but they fall out with all the jumping around and head banging. any suggestions and don't say "wear ear muffs!" lolol

Merls

I say wear ear muffs! ... read on ...

I play in a cover rock band which practices in a "rehersal studio" with good acoustics. We have a moderate drummer and my 100W Bass combo is turned half way. Genereally speaing it shouldn't be too loud and I have been wearing etymotic er20 plugs.

Then few weeks ago it happened, I suddenly realized that E was hearing a high pitched noise at 15 kHz. Went to the doctor for a check up but found no appparent reason.

That's when I took an SPL meter with me to practice one day and found the meter read consistently around 100 +/5 dBC. This will damage hearing without protection and with the 20 dB attenuation we are at 80 dBs which is just at acceptable limit. I decided that I want better protection as I don't want the tinnitus to get any worse. I tried different types of ear plugs and finally ear muffs. Howard Leight Leightning L2 to be precise. Nowa after getting used to it I feel comfortable playing and singing backing vocals.

Happy ending is that the tinnitus disappeared after two weeks. Apparently it was an early symptom of a flu that I had.

I of ear muffs seriously as a viable alternative, there's even the Howard Leight Clarity model with consistent attenuation trhoughout the frequency range. Howard Leight | Clarity Electronic Ear Muffs

 

[Popbumper]

Four years ago, on a Saturday evening in January, I "test drove" a hybrid speaker I built. You see, I had been dabbling for some years in building custom crossovers, and had been an audio fanatic most of my life. Mom used to tell me "some day you'll be deaf", and of course I knew better.

My home theater was built back in about 2005 - nothing elaborate, but with a full complement of Klipsch "horn type" speakers. Wow. What incredible articulation, beauty, presence, realism. Especially with those excellent crossovers!!

...but with sound, you always want MORE. Oh yes, the 80's brought me a wonderful car stereo setup that I gleefully pounded out Def Leppard and other assorted tunes on, many hours a day. Of course, this is after years of being in marching bands and orchestras.

So back to our story, the years of "aural violation" had been building, but had not announced themselves. The wife walks into the theater and hears the speaker. Oh My God, that's harsh!! What? I don't know what you mean.....

Two hours of Lord of the Rings, The Matrix, etc., etc., were killing me, and I did not know it. Off to bed.

The camel's back was broken. The next morning, my head was in a ball of sound - and the sound (esp in the left ear) remains.

I won't belabor the hell of the last 4 years. I have the custom earplugs. I have tinnitus 24 hours a day. I have acute sound threshold (even low sounds seem amplified). Some days the REFRIGERATOR is too dam& loud to stand. Anything above 5kHz is GONE, except for the permanent squeal in my ears.

Get it kids? Play now and pay later. I can't say enough about how much you DON'T know what you are doing to your future hearing. PLease be safe. I will never have silence again - ever - ever - ever.........don't do it......

Chris

 

[Vorago]

Good point on the hyperaccutis. It's one thing to have a ring in your ear, but not being able to stand basic things like a metro car driving by or a car horn is terrible. My HA is slowly subsiding now, but half a year it was really bad. Still can't see music shows though

The ring is still there but it's managable.

 

[TMB]

Yeah the audiologist ones are great!!

 

[lowendfriend]

I just did a gig with custom fitted Westone protectors with a 15 dB cut. I must say it was fantastic!

No extra loud tinnitus (I have it all the time anyway) or anything after a real loud outdoor gig. I was surprised how well I could have discussions and hear more minor sounds while it blocked the heavy duty stuff well.

 

[Icey101]

i damaged my right ear on a road trip i did on my motorbike, the noise inside the helmet did it over a length of time. Now ear plugs for me in any loud scene is a must, damage can come from other places too

 

[Stumbo]

....damage can come from other places too

I have a car with a loud exhaust/no insulation-sound deadening and earplugs are a must for any freeway driving or pretty much any driving more than 10 minutes.

 

[Petebass]

i damaged my right ear on a road trip i did on my motorbike, the noise inside the helmet did it over a length of time. Now ear plugs for me in any loud scene is a must, damage can come from other places too

I wear ear plugs on long distance and high speed motorbike rides. I figure if the pro racers do it, so should I.

 

[Dustin Teel]

If it's too loud, you're too old.

Wimps.

 

[Petebass]

Tough guy huh! And original too.... Like that hasn't already been said a million times already in this thread already. A dead giveaway that you didn't even bother to read it.

I guess you can't save em all.

 

[Stumbo]

I purchased two sets of custom plugs:
1) -9db
2) completely filled(no filter) and extended to outside of ear canal

My intent was to use the filled ones for sleeping and the other ones for playing out.

The -9db didn't seem to quiet a drummer on a 3 foot riser (cymbol in the ear) and the filled ones blocked the highs too much.

A couple of days ago I tried a filled one in my ear facing the drummer and a -9db in the other ear. Worked great for me. I was able to hear everything well enough and my ear on the drummer's side didn't get pounded.

Another plus, with the one ear completely blocked, I was able to hear myself better while singing some backup and help keep me in tune.

PS. not comfortable for sleeping.

 

[thunderider]

i got tinnatus,due to loud music and being a motorcycle courier,last gig i did on sound check i was saying to the sound guy turn it up as i cant hear it ...he said i was drownding everything else out! even in rehersals i turn it up to a volume i find i can hear and the others say in too load...think my hearings shot!!!

 

[PsyDocHill]

If it's too loud, you're too old.

Wimps.

There's no other explanation. Well, there is, but why consider such silliness? So Dustin Teel was sharing a well-worn joke with us all. It amuses me, because, as a kid, I actually believed said joke because I was Superman--like Dustin--& proceeded accordingly. A couple of decades later, now equipped with bilateral tinnitus, I wear my ER-25 customs, because, unlike Dustin's joking alter-ego, I don't want any hearing-loss. Somehow I got away without that. As I wrote eons ago (on this thread), I was lucky. I like my normal audiogram: It displays what I know, that is, I can hear across the frequency spectrum with no impairment. That allows me to enjoy live and recorded music fully, hearing every nuanced overtone. So I'm going to keep that audiogram normal. Like other musicians, I cherish music & need the tools to perceive it properly. You know, I'm so out there that I even cherish speech & love the fact that I can hear my little girls singing softly. If Justin wasn't joking, I wish him luck in adjusting to his ever-changing audiogram. Hey, each test will be so exciting, filled with various surprises. How could anyone resist that?!

 

[PsyDocHill]

i got tinnatus,due to loud music and being a motorcycle courier,last gig i did on sound check i was saying to the sound guy turn it up as i cant hear it ...he said i was drownding everything else out! even in rehersals i turn it up to a volume i find i can hear and the others say in too load...think my hearings shot!!!

You need to see an ENT: You may have significant wax-impaction & little if any sensorineural hearing-loss...or perhaps you've got a correctible middle-ear condition...who knows? When was the last time a hearing-professional took a look? I know it's scary to get tested when you expect bad news, but if you're going to keep playing, you deserve to know where you stand. You obviously can still hear, so whatever your audiogram looks like, hearing-protection will help conserve the status-quo. Good luck.