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Hearing myself in the mix

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by Morphgarth, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Morphgarth


    Nov 11, 2013
    Hi guys. I'm a complete newbie. Been rehearsing with a band and all going fine. Last night we rehearsed in a venue we'll be playing soon. Up until now it's all been in proper studio/ rehearsal spaces. The venue has a hard tiled floor, low ceiling and brick walls.

    Anyway, I was really struggling to hear myself. I'm using an ashdown mag 600 with a 1x12 and a 4x10.

    I turned up the Mids which seemed to help. People were telling me the bass was cutting through to the audience area. Is there an optimum position for me to be relative to my rig etc?

    Any clues appreciated?
  2. bluesdogblues


    Nov 13, 2007
    Bassplayer's 'usual' position just few steps in front of the bass cabs is already good place to have the sweet spot IMHO.
  3. FretNoMore

    FretNoMore * Cooking with GAS *

    Jan 25, 2002
    The frozen north
    A bit out of the box maybe, but I find that wearing hearing protection makes me hear myself better. It lowers the overall sound pressure from the band and it takes out the "boominess" so I hear the actual bass tone better.
  4. Why are you mixing a 4X10 with a single 12 ?

    You are limiting yourself by putting 1/2 your power into that 1X12
  5. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Supporting Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    West Bend, Wisconsin
    1. Step away from your rig. If most of it is blowing your pants legs around, there's not much reaching your ears. Standing a few feet in front of it can help. And/or elevate/angle your cabs to get more sound to your ears.

    2. Leave your 1x12 at home. Or at least put it on the bottom and don't bother plugging it in. You're limiting your 4x10 cab to what your 12 can handle. Unwise.

    3. Lose some of the deep lows and dial in some mids. Sounds like you know that trick already.
  6. Morphgarth


    Nov 11, 2013
    Thanks for the tips guys. I do have a second 4x10. Is it worth running both of them then and dropping the 12?
  7. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Supporting Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    West Bend, Wisconsin
    No question about it.
  8. Morphgarth


    Nov 11, 2013
    Cheers buddy.
  9. smeet

    smeet Gold Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2006
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Try tilting or lifting one of your cabinets so it points right at your head.
  10. Phalex

    Phalex Semper Gumby Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    G.R. MI
    I've got a tilt back combo, and sometimes tilting it up is all it takes. That seems to uncouple the speaker box from the floor though, and in some instances I find it easier to use the vibration from the stage as a point of reference. (If everything is all muddy and mushy in my ears, that can be very helpful)

    I like a bump around 800HZ to add clarity.
  11. Morphgarth


    Nov 11, 2013
    Sorry. To clarify the head is a mag 600. Rated at 600 rms 900 peak. 4 ohm min.

    The cabs are a mag 410t deep at 450 watts and a mag 115 (not 12) rated at 250w. Both 8 ohms.

    So does that mean that the 115 is limiting output to 500w hence if I ran my second 410 I'd get the full 600?
  12. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    if the second 4x10 is the same as the first. They should pair better. I am not a fan of the 4x10 and 1 x15 setup... A decent 4x10 can put out a lot of sound. I would try just the one and get 6 to 8 feet out from it or, get it raised up off the floor to the point where you can hear it closer in.
    Flad likes this.
  13. StraightSix


    Nov 23, 2011

    Two 410 cabs will be mighty.
  14. okcrum

    okcrum in your chest

    Oct 5, 2009
    Verde Valley, AZ
    RIP Dark Horse strings
    Also covers all the eg/cab position issues at once. Got lows? check. Got highs? check. Got mids? double check.

    Flaps your pants and you can hear it. The real secret of the fridge. Carries the venue if necessary.
  15. Morphgarth


    Nov 11, 2013
    Thanks for all the help guys.
  16. socialleper

    socialleper Bringer of doom and top shelf beer Supporting Member

    May 31, 2009
    Canyon Country, CA
    Playing live on a stage is different from practicing, which is different from recording. The sound is never the same and having trouble hearing yourself is common, especially in cheap joints without could monitors (even some of the nice places have trouble with the monitors.) That's why practice is so crucial. In a worst case scenario you may be able to hear very little except the drums, so you better know that song backwards and forwards, and so should your band mates.
  17. Lo-E


    Dec 19, 2009
    Brooklyn, NY
    +1, +2 and +3! This is right on all counts - especially dialling out some deep lows. It's counterintuitive to remove deep lows from bass, but for live gigs it's often necessary. That room has got everything you need to make it difficult to hear yourself; hard surfaces, low ceiling the deep lows will just make mud in there. Lots of audience will help, but only so much. A second 4x10 might not be necessary for the added volume (it depends upon the size of the room), but what it will do, if you stack them, is bring those 10s closer to the level of your ears, which will definitely help you to hear yourself. As others mentioned, getting out in front of the cab will help too.
  18. frnjplayer


    Feb 3, 2014
    "Sorry. To clarify the head is a mag 600. Rated at 600 rms 900 peak. 4 ohm min.

    The cabs are a mag 410t deep at 450 watts and a mag 115 (not 12) rated at 250w. Both 8 ohms.

    So does that mean that the 115 is limiting output to 500w hence if I ran my second 410 I'd get the full 600?"

    No no no.
    Power ratings on cabs are not like valves on a hose. You can run as much power into a cabinet as you want. That 450W number just tells you when smoke will come out instead of clean rich bass. The limiting number ends up being the 8 ohms.
    RMS tells you how much (more or less) continuous power that your amp can put out. The 900 W peak value tells you what is the absolute maximum amount of energy that will come out of the amp. Try to get that for more than an instant you will get smoke instead of clean rich bass.
    To take your actual setup:
    If you chain the 2 speakers together it will, unless there is some very funky wiring, look like a 4 ohm load to your amplifier. Google parallel resistance formula if you want to see the math. That means that your amp will be able to deliver its top power output which is 600 W rms. As each speaker is equal in resistance they will split the available power equally, more or less. That turns into 300W for each cabinet that CAN be delivered. Unless you're playing an outdoor festival you are probably sending only sending 10-20W out to the speakers and the rest is headroom for dynamics. It is astounding how little power you actually are using during most playing and it is also astounding how much more power is needed for incremental increases in volume. The math is exponential rather than additive.

    In terms of not hearing yourself in the mix, you and lot's of others have nailed it. More mids. Not always the satisfying answer but....