Helix/Fractal/Headrush Users-Any Regrets?

[Ryan L.]

I’m seriously considering ditching my amp and pedalboard and making the switch to a Helix Floor unit, and using one or two of my powered EV’s as my stage monitor/amp.

I always have full PA support (I own a large PA system), so there’s no issues there.

So I guess my question is, for those who have made the switch to a Helix or Fractal or whatever system, do you have any regrets? What do you see as the main drawbacks to going from a traditional amp setup to one of these modeling units?

Also, since I know it’ll be asked as to what I’m wanting out of it:

I basically want a one stop shop, that can go from old school to new, modern sounding, with all the effects I’d want under the hood, and a consistent sound night after night. No worries about knobs on pedals being messed up in transit, etc. And a more simplified setup.

 

[bholder]

I have the Helix, and I'm a bit disappointed in the modulation section, quite underwhelming. Provides several models of other units, but no access to the underlying functions to "build your own". So no envelope control on phasers or chorus, for example. I understand the amp and cab sims are supposed to be great, haven't really gotten into them yet.

 

[_Some Dude]

I basically want a one stop shop, that can go from old school to new, modern sounding, with all the effects I’d want under the hood, and a consistent sound night after night. No worries about knobs on pedals being messed up in transit, etc. And a more simplified setup.

Pros

multi-effects work great when you have a firm setlist so you can setup presets for each song and get consistent performance gig after gig, and they allow you to do complex changes with a tap of a button, which is great if you sing and play.

Cons

Where I found them frustrating is it’s difficult to improvise since you’re reliant on presets, and if something doesn’t sound quite right there’s no way to tweak it on the fly. I found levels and time based effects problematic as what sounds perfect in one room might be a mess in another room. If your set order frequently changes you either have to re-program/reorder scenes before each gig or manually scroll through presets between songs until you find the right one.

I love the convenience but I hate feeling like my hands are tied. YMMV.

 

[shaggy45]

I liked the preamps with the custom preset pack from ownhammer on the helix floor. I didn’t like the effects and I don’t have time to be a programmer or engineer to make them sound good. I sold it and went back to pedals.

 

[Ryan L.]

I can definitely understand what you guys have mentioned about the pros/cons.

I do a fair amount of singing in my band, so it would definitely be helpful there, being able to hit one or two buttons to get where I want, rather than tap dancing on 3-4 different pedals at times.

 

[Ryan L.]

Bumping this up to try to get some more input.

My lead guitar player uses a full Headrush setup-the big floorboard and two of the 112 frfr powered cabs. He swears by it, but, he’s a guitar player, and these things seem to lean heavily towards guitar and not bass.

 

[shaggy45]

I can definitely understand what you guys have mentioned about the pros/cons.

I do a fair amount of singing in my band, so it would definitely be helpful there, being able to hit one or two buttons to get where I want, rather than tap dancing on 3-4 different pedals at times.

What about a programmable switcher like the boss es8? No tap dancing. You can’t program your pedals though.

 

[4Mal]

I'm aiming midi and the Source Audio ecosystem. I also sing a lot. Mostly I'm after synth(Herbie's Chameleon ARP and Wonder's Boogie On Reggae Woman), Octaver, modulation (flange) and very subtle dark dirt. So C4, AfterShock and Mercury with Neuro Hub and Soleman controller. Those all sit in the efx loop of a Bassbone for switching - I cable a 4 and a 5 or fretted and fretless 4's.

I'm in my infancy with this rig but it seems promising so far

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

My only gripe of switching to the line 6 hx fx has been that it's harder to do quick grab and go jams with buddies because I had no way to be heard without going thru a pa. Now it's not quite as bad that I got a power amp installed on my pedal board I do still need to grab a cab for it tho.

 

[Ryan L.]

I’ll still keep my Orange rig, plus I’ve got 3 combo amps of different sizes I can use for rehearsals and any other situations where the Helix wouldn’t make sense.

I’m just seriously exploring the option right now, I’m not dead set on doing it yet.

 

[_Some Dude]

I’ll still keep my Orange rig, plus I’ve got 3 combo amps of different sizes I can use for rehearsals and any other situations where the Helix wouldn’t make sense.

I’m just seriously exploring the option right now, I’m not dead set on doing it yet.

What are you aiming to achieve effects wise?

What is it about your current setup that you feel is holding you back?

 

[WaldoNova]

I'm aiming midi and the Source Audio ecosystem. I also sing a lot. Mostly I'm after synth(Herbie's Chameleon ARP and Wonder's Boogie On Reggae Woman), Octaver, modulation (flange) and very subtle dark dirt. So C4, AfterShock and Mercury with Neuro Hub and Soleman controller. Those all sit in the efx loop of a Bassbone for switching - I cable a 4 and a 5 or fretted and fretless 4's.

I'm in my infancy with this rig but it seems promising so far

The SA universe/system is very cool. My main issue, when I was utilizing it, was that any scene involving dirt was extremely difficult to get levels right in a band mix. Looking back I wish I'd thought of just excluding the dirt pedals all together(from the scenes) so I could adjust them on the fly.

 

[jimfist]

Though I've been using modeling exclusively for a number of years, I've still hung onto a couple of bass cabinets and my GK head, so that I can do gigs where bass isn't feeding the mixer via DI, and still carry the room (usually small rooms).

First hurdle (after you settle on a modeler), is creating your tones via a full range sound system so that YOU like the way it sounds. I advise against using headphones for this phase, and advocate for spending time with your live PA system if possible, to adjust the sounds so they represent what the PA will get in a real world scenario. Enlist your regular sound man to help if he/she is willing.

If you must tone tweak at home, do so at healthy (loud) gigging levels if at all possible. The fabled "bedroom volume" sound creation method will give you a false sense of the sound, and is usually a recipe for disaster for newbs.

Also, the way bass sounds through a lot of PA systems can be quite different than the "feel" of the sound you get from a traditional back-line amp. If you're going IEM eventually, than this is less of an issue. Just keep in mind that PA speaker systems are not designed to sound the same as bass amp/speaker systems. In fact, some bassists can't get past this discrepancy for their stage mix (via monitor speakers, or using powered PA cabs as their new full-range back line cabinets). Keep an open mind. This is done successfully all the time.

There are other choices along the line, for example: to use cabinet modeling (can be tricky & time consuming), or instead bypass cabinet modeling and use simple EQ or LPF/HPF filters to shape final tone? Many use HPF to remove the sub-low frequencies that are muddy and fight with the kick drum for space, and LPF to take the ultra-high crispiness out of the tone (when using fuzz/distortion/drive, these are the frequencies that sound like swarming bees). Cabinet modeling generally accomplishes the same thing by digitally emulating a real bass cab. I've had luck using both cabinet modeling (digital IR tech) and without cab modeling with EQ/filtering.

It's a beautiful thing to have your entire bass sound in a pedal format. Lightens the load, and it's very flexible from a programming standpoint. It does come at a price, though, if you're up to the task. If you aren't big on downtime spent tweaking, you may get frustrated, in which case I recommend you remind yourself to keep it simple, avoid rabbit holes.

Good luck.

 

[4Mal]

The SA universe/system is very cool. My main issue, when I was utilizing it, was that any scene involving dirt was extremely difficult to get levels right in a band mix. Looking back I wish I'd thought of just excluding the dirt pedals all together(from the scenes) so I could adjust them on the fly.

good intel. One key with the C4 for me has been what I assign to the knobs.

 

[Ryan L.]

That’s great info, @jimfist. It echoes a lot of what my guitar player said as well.

I do have the ability to run it through my PA system with my soundguy at a venue we play at to get it dialed in for FOH sound, so that would definitely help in getting it all set up. I’d be able to get close running it through a powered EV at home, then finish nailing it down through the PA.

My main objective would be using it for my main band (variety cover band). I like the idea of having an all-in-one unit that covers my amps and effects. Efficient and consistent, and quick to set up, since we’re setting up a big PA and lighting setup each night already.

 

[Ryan L.]

What about a programmable switcher like the boss es8? No tap dancing. You can’t program your pedals though.

That’s definitely something I should consider. I have 3 H9’s, so the ability to control my presets on them from one source might be another option.

 

[RadioactiveGuy4]

I'm currently using the HX Stomp and i'm very happy with it. My main goal was to be able to have a reliable sound no matter where I went, whether I was playing through my rig, a provided backline set up, or PA only with monitors/IEM. I don't use huge amounts of effects, mostly just a bit of dirt and some reverb and chorus every now and then.

The HX Stomp does everything I want with the exception of dirt, but due to the signal routing options it was not a problem for me to add my Darkglass pedal to the stomp. The amp and cab sims are on point and for the most part I have my tone dialed in so that the only thing I have to adjust is a HPF for boomy stages no matter what rig/PA I have to work with. It also all fits on to a pedaltrain Nano, which make my load in a little bit quicker and easier.

 

[TigerInATrance]

I've been using the full Helix floor for the last few months and it's been really great. The only issue I've had is the couple of gigs where I couldn't go direct to the PA. The first one I tried using my Eden WT800 into both the front and into the post EQ return then into a 2x12 bass cabinet. It didn't really work out very well as the sound was kind of muddy (and I did try with the amp block and/or cab block on and off in all combinations)

The next one went better where I borrowed one of our 12" PA tops and an 18" sub and ran direct into that...

That worked so well that I'm selling my amp and cabs to fund the best possible speaker and sub to run through when needed.

 

[Tekkers]

I have the HX Stomp but I’m aiming to sell it, and I’ve gone back to the Tech 21 Fly Rig Bass that I was using before.

The Helix sounds are great, but there are so many settings that the option paralysis is real and I can’t be bothered with the faff any more. I’m not as into patch tweaking as I used to be and I prefer the convenience of WYSIWYG controls on an analogue board in front of me.

The main thing though was the HX can do all sorts of mad effects and routing and tones that I’d love messing about with at home, but had nowhere to use in any of my own songs and which wouldn’t work live. Turns out I just needed a few core sounds after all, and I felt like I was wasting the potential.

Also the hassle of setting up a really sweet sounding patch at home only to find it disappears in the mix, or has a really honky midrange or something, then having to pause a rehearsal for five mins while you dive into several nested menus on a small screen looking for the one setting that will fix the problem.

Great tool and if I’d had access to it ten years ago I could have done crazy things with it.
Now, not so much.

 

[bigtexashonk]

Have been gigging a Helix Floor for the last 3 weeks and am beyond pleased. Quality of sound has improved so much. Excellent flexibility, particularly on the fly without needing a laptop. My band has been blown away by the sound.

The strongest reason for the Helix in my case is repeatability no matter the venue or sound system. With the Helix I have consistency in spades.

Understand, I don't have any interest in making may bass sound like a cinder block in a spinning dryer. I just want realistic solid bass tones with an occasional effect. I've been able to assemble a dozen classic bass amp/cab/compressor/effect chains that cover most any classic bass rigs. One happy user here.