Agreed, but I still don't understand how you can call a Wizzy driven by an iamp200 a "combo".
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Double Bass Help: AI Coda or Clarus 2R plus a Wizzy?
- Thread starter MT Spaces
- Start date
Can you believe it Ladies and Gentlemen ..... it looks like a dead heat between Secretariat and Seabiscuit!
Thanks so much for the great discussion guys. I am feeling good about my choice of the Coda as the "starter package". When I add that Wizzy 4 ohm in parallel later on to take advantage of the 2 ohm amp rating I think I really will have the best of both worlds (to quote Bob Branstetter). Have a Great Weekend Everybody!
Take a look [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. That's precisely of what the Wizzy combo consists! I chose to buy them as separate pieces for flexibility in the future.
- May 6, 2003
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- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I don't agree with that. I've played both with my Focus 2RIII. I prefer the M line Wizzy over all the Bergantino Cabs I've tried with my Double Bass.
Yes, the components are exactly same as what EA sells as the Wizzy combo. The only difference is that the iamp200 is not built into a sleeve at the top of the cab.
I probably have less experience than several of the people who have posted thus far in this thread. But IME, this room and speaker placement interaction is key, whether I am using my Wizzy or my Contra. I think the Contra may be more sensitive to this interaction due to its down-firing design, but it clearly can make a big difference to my ears even with my front-firing cab.
In each venue, I experiment as much as conditions will allow, and I try to find the speaker placement that works best. That means on the floor vs. on a stand or chair, and either using (or avoiding) walls behind me and corners, etc. I even have an Auralex Gramma pad that I use occasionally, esp. if I know I will be on a hollow wooden stage or riser. Maybe that is a weird way to approach it, but it works for me most of the time once I find the room's sweet spot for my speaker.
I've posted this before, but I was asking Rick Jones once about using a piece of plywood under my Contra to get a more "consistent" sound from one venue to the next. He did not particularly endorse the plywood idea, but he did say (and I am paraphrasing here) that the room is the single most important variable that effects the perceived quality of the sound, in his opinion. Granted, this was way before the much higher powered Series III line was introduced, if that should matter.
And that observation still makes a lot of sense to me. And I would even expand it further to include my EA cab as well. For the Wizzy, I think it sounds best most of the time to me w/ walls close behind it or even corners sometimes to help use the layout of the room to 'amplify' the depth and warmth factor that I look for.
You are 100% correct and so was Rick Jones. Speaker/room interactions account for a huge portion of the variance in sound. I never meant to suggest that the Wizzy is not subject to this as well. All speaker systems are. Perhaps I should have been clearer about that. What I will (and did) say, however, is that the Wizzy allows one more flexibility in terms of placement. Coupled with a good parametric eq section, it affords success in a wide variety of acoustic environments. Again, when the situation is right for the AI, it is, in my opinion, fantastic.
Right on Doc. I did not mean to imply that this sonic fung shei thing I go through was only for the Contra, or that you were limiting your comments similarly.
And ditto re: the Contra's unique and pleasing character.
Maybe I should pay you a visit too for a lesson in total EQ management. The tone shaping controls on the iAMP sure would make for an incredible instructional aid.
And ditto re: the Contra's unique and pleasing character.
Maybe I should pay you a visit too for a lesson in total EQ management. The tone shaping controls on the iAMP sure would make for an incredible instructional aid.
Thanks to Bolo and the Good Doctor for tips on amp placement and room interaction issues. At this point I know zippo about these issues. I've only been playing DB about 9 months (but way hooked) and I've never owned an amp of any kind. I won't have the new Coda until next Thursday. Hope I can figure out what all those pesky knobs and switches are for
.From reading past threads I know that there are folks (Adrian Cho and others) that are not thrilled with the downfiring woofer design
. Do you experienced bassists think that the tilt legs on the Series III Contra and Coda will help the situation? Any other practical advice on amp placement and room interaction is greatly appreciated. Anybody know of past threads that discuss these issues? When the snow melts, what about the small / non-festival / outdoor / on-the-lawn / no-stage / no-bandshell situations? Is some kind of plywood platform for the downfiring Coda amp in order? Or Is that the situation where you need a front-firing "satellite" speaker (i.e. Wizzy)? Thanks a bunch.
I was just talking (phone & e-mail) to Dave McElroy at Redstone Audio in Alabama about my Coda order. He said that he has Series III Contra (single channel, no 2-channel Codas left) in stock if anyone is interested. I know AI is waiting for woofers to make more combo amps and some retailers that I checked with are all out of AI combos. If you want a Contra ASAP, you better snatch it up. And no, I don't get any commissions. Dave's phone # is (256) 520-3881. Hope he doesn't get pissed I gave his number out :scowl: !
One of the reasons I chose the Wizzy is simply that I didn't want to have to be concerned about venues in which the down-firing woofer design would be at a distinct disadvantage. I didn't want to have to own a front-firing design as an alternate.
Well bolo, I'd love to visit with you. In the meantime, here's something I've posted before but am too lazy to dig up via a search.
One of the best ways of which I know to learn to use an equalizer is as follows. It starts with the output of an FM tuner. This, of course, can be a separate tuner, a tuner within a stereo receiver, the tuner in a Walkman, etc. The only special requirement is that the tuner either not have an automatic muting function or have one that can be disabled. Connect the output of the tuner to your amp and speaker system. Set the eq flat.
Tune the FM tuner between stations so that all you get is noise (automatic muting functions kick in here and prevent you hearing the inter-station noise, thus the requirement mentioned above). The noise is a very good approximation to what is called white Gaussian noise.
Now, with this noise playing through your system, boost and cut each frequency band and listen to what happens. If you have a parametric eq, investigate what happens as you pick a frequency and boost but vary the bandwidth (extent of frequencies) that is affected (the "octave" switches on the iamp).
By doing this, you will learn what effects within each frequency region sound like. It is worth the investment in time to play around with this. If you do, then when you get to a gig and hear a particularly "full" lower mid-range, you just might be able to say, "Oh, the region around 500 Hz needs to be cut."
No one is born being able to recognize and identify frequency bands. It's a matter of experience. If you use the little technique outlined above, you can learn to identify the bands in a controlled way as you make the changes with your very own hands.
Give it a try.
Well bolo, I'd love to visit with you. In the meantime, here's something I've posted before but am too lazy to dig up via a search.
One of the best ways of which I know to learn to use an equalizer is as follows. It starts with the output of an FM tuner. This, of course, can be a separate tuner, a tuner within a stereo receiver, the tuner in a Walkman, etc. The only special requirement is that the tuner either not have an automatic muting function or have one that can be disabled. Connect the output of the tuner to your amp and speaker system. Set the eq flat.
Tune the FM tuner between stations so that all you get is noise (automatic muting functions kick in here and prevent you hearing the inter-station noise, thus the requirement mentioned above). The noise is a very good approximation to what is called white Gaussian noise.
Now, with this noise playing through your system, boost and cut each frequency band and listen to what happens. If you have a parametric eq, investigate what happens as you pick a frequency and boost but vary the bandwidth (extent of frequencies) that is affected (the "octave" switches on the iamp).
By doing this, you will learn what effects within each frequency region sound like. It is worth the investment in time to play around with this. If you do, then when you get to a gig and hear a particularly "full" lower mid-range, you just might be able to say, "Oh, the region around 500 Hz needs to be cut."
No one is born being able to recognize and identify frequency bands. It's a matter of experience. If you use the little technique outlined above, you can learn to identify the bands in a controlled way as you make the changes with your very own hands.
Give it a try.
IMO, outdoors is one place where you will probably need the the directionality of a front firing speaker cabinet. The other place is huge auditoriums. The tilting legs will take care of most other places. However, I usually try it without the tilting legs first since it only take a few seconds to raise the legs. You will quickly figure out when to use the legs and the matters of placement. Because the Coda is so light, moving it around is no big deal. Enjoy!
I would have considered it sacrilege when I first owned the Contra 8 years ago ... But in some settings now I find the Contra sounds better to me sitting on a chair. It "cuts through" better if you will without the floor coupling in certain settings. Granted, mine is the Series I and does not have the high pass filter to help control the low end.
I won't do this if the chair is upholstered or covered in cloth. I have rock maple kitchen chairs at home (got 'em for a song at a yard sale) that work beautifully as a 'Contra stand' for example.
And with my Contra EX extension cab I have even tried one on the floor and one raised.
I won't do this if the chair is upholstered or covered in cloth. I have rock maple kitchen chairs at home (got 'em for a song at a yard sale) that work beautifully as a 'Contra stand' for example.
And with my Contra EX extension cab I have even tried one on the floor and one raised.
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I think you will find that the Series III is a bit different. Putting the Series I on a chair simply puts it closer to your ear so you can hear it better. On a chair, you also minimize the floor coupling. Forget about the filters (which I seldom need or use), there's just a lot more usable power with the Series III. After having used a Series I Contra for several years before obtaining my Series III Coda, I find comparing the two is almost like comparing apples and oranges.
Well, this certianly is an interesting discussion. I've always found that
when you get into the finer points of Double Bass amplification it usually gets to be a tradeoff between size and sound. Acoustic Image has the market cornered for the smallest bass combo with all the features you need to use a variety of input sources and control feedback. Euphonic Audio has the edge in the sound pressure level arena. This is a great advantage if you want to use a amplifier that isn't a beast to carry around. I like both amps but I've never actually seen a Series III Acoustic Image in St. Louis or a EA Whizzy for that matter.
I love EA cabinets and own a few. The work very well with a Walter Woods. I'm fortunate enough to have the VL 108 for the small gigs and the VL 208 for the bigger ones. Hopefully EA will keep working on the NL 208. I'm always interested in a lighter system.
Ric
when you get into the finer points of Double Bass amplification it usually gets to be a tradeoff between size and sound. Acoustic Image has the market cornered for the smallest bass combo with all the features you need to use a variety of input sources and control feedback. Euphonic Audio has the edge in the sound pressure level arena. This is a great advantage if you want to use a amplifier that isn't a beast to carry around. I like both amps but I've never actually seen a Series III Acoustic Image in St. Louis or a EA Whizzy for that matter.
I love EA cabinets and own a few. The work very well with a Walter Woods. I'm fortunate enough to have the VL 108 for the small gigs and the VL 208 for the bigger ones. Hopefully EA will keep working on the NL 208. I'm always interested in a lighter system.
Ric
Right, right, I know you have said this before. Finally beginning to sink in over here. That's really pretty cool.
Note to self - Gotta try one someday.
I see Paul Ingbretsen using one w/ his guitar on a jazz duo gig in Raleigh quite regularly. Or maybe he is using the Corus now. Paul is the #2 guy at Acoustic Image. Very fine DB player and guitar player as well.
Oh, no! Do not forget about the filters. That is, the high-pass filter. Just search for my posts regarding the problems with infrasonics when using piezo pickups. Those unwanted frequencies can drive the AI and any other equipment bonkers by robbing power unnecessarily and producing abnormal speaker-cone excursions.
OK, here I am again ... the neanderthal surrounded by homo sapiens
. I will be running a Rev Solo II piezo pickup with the Coda. What's the starting point for the high-pass filter? Any suggestions, or do I just learn by experience (i.e. the school of hard boominess)? Thanks everyone, this is more fun than Kindergarten!
OK, here I am again ... the neanderthal surrounded by homo sapiens
I'd say 40 Hz or lower as a cutoff for the high-pass filter.
