Help diagnosing problems with Eden cabinets: D210XLT & D212XLT

[brownbud]

So I pulled out my Eden rig yesterday after 2+ years of hibernation and I'm experiencing two different problems. Curious what you all would advise as a best course of action?

On the D210XLT I'm getting pretty bad distortion/buzzing with any note on the E string. Mainly when played with some level of dynamic attack. If I play super soft and quiet things sound Ok. I noticed that the speakers are creased, which is something I just learned about. I'm not that familiar with blown speakers...are these blown? Note only the top cab is plugged in in this video:


On the D212XLT I'm finding what appears to be a problem with the tweeter. This video's not as obvious, but I'm turning the tweeter on and off. When the tweeter is on you can hear a bit of buzzy distortion.


I also just discovered that Eden's no longer in business. I've loved the sound of these cabs but wondering if it's worth the money to fix? I bought these used and probably paid $300-400 each. I've read reports of a single replacement speaker costing as much as $275.

Anybody gone through this recently? Thanks for your input!

 

[BassNugget]

Good news and bad news. Eden is still in busines, but they were purchased by these guys:

Invalid Link Removed

Seems like Marshall sold the company.

 

[BassNugget]

Do you have a good tech nearby who could do a recone for the 210?

 

[Schlyder]

Those speakers are done.

 

[brownbud]

Do you have a good tech nearby who could do a recone for the 210?

Yeah probably...do you think a recone job would fix it?

 

[BassNugget]

I can't tell if there is any voice coil damage, but if it is just creased, perhaps. Have a qualified tech look at it, then you will know for sure. They can give you a rundown and let you know if parts are available or if there is a suitable replacement out there.

You can also send an email to Gear4music asking them about replacements.

USSpeaker is another resource which can sometimes find a suitable replacement speaker if a recone cannot happen.

But the speakers that are in there are designed and produced specifically for that cabinet. Even if they look "off the shelf" they most likely are not. Factory parts and a recondition would be the best bet, if it can be done.

 

[matti777]

Replacement speaker for Eden D410XLT

 

[agedhorse]

My experience is that factory recone parts are no longer available and haven't been for some time.

The CA-1059 might be an ok substitute, but may not sound the same. They will hold up better though.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

^^ That is about it with the 2x10.
That crease means they are dead, no home remedy to fix that.
Unless you like the distortion, then keep going until they eventually go silent.

Them were played too hard before going into storage, or someone snuck them out.

 

[JW56789]

You're lucky. My brand new out of the box Metro and 115XLT did that as soon as I plugged them in the very first time. You could gently push the suspension in and out and heard the damndest scraping you ever heard. Then the guy tells me Eden does not warranty speakers. Somehow, I'm not in jail . . . . .

 

[dbsfgyd1]

So I pulled out my Eden rig yesterday after 2+ years of hibernation and I'm experiencing two different problems. Curious what you all would advise as a best course of action?

On the D210XLT I'm getting pretty bad distortion/buzzing with any note on the E string. Mainly when played with some level of dynamic attack. If I play super soft and quiet things sound Ok. I noticed that the speakers are creased, which is something I just learned about. I'm not that familiar with blown speakers...are these blown? Note only the top cab is plugged in in this video:


On the D212XLT I'm finding what appears to be a problem with the tweeter. This video's not as obvious, but I'm turning the tweeter on and off. When the tweeter is on you can hear a bit of buzzy distortion.


I also just discovered that Eden's no longer in business. I've loved the sound of these cabs but wondering if it's worth the money to fix? I bought these used and probably paid $300-400 each. I've read reports of a single replacement speaker costing as much as $275.

Anybody gone through this recently? Thanks for your input!

One thing. You need to crack open the volume of the tweeter. Do not operate with the tweeter turned completely off you you may fry the Lpad. If you played with these tweeter turned of a lot before you hibernated, the damage may already been done.

Second thing, were the speakers creased when you bought the cabs? If they were they were abused. If not, they were abused some time later. About six years ago I bought a pair of Eden 10 that were creased. The seller said they were water marks. Anyway, I had them reconed @ $85 a piece and they've been great ever since.

Third thing, Eden cabs are exceptionally well made and well tuned. If I were me, if I couldn't find a repair shop with the proper kits to recone the speakers, I'd contact Eminence customer support. They may have a solution. That said, if these cabs are in good condition, and you don't mind the weight, $500 is pretty cheap for a 2-12 replacement rig that will last you a long time.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

You're lucky. My brand new out of the box Metro and 115XLT did that as soon as I plugged them in the very first time. You could gently push the suspension in and out and heard the damndest scraping you ever heard. Then the guy tells me Eden does not warranty speakers. Somehow, I'm not in jail . . . . .

He was DEAD WRONG! Those speakers had the same 2 or 3-year warranty (depending upon when you bought it) that the amps have. That scraping normally means the voice coil is toast. As long as they have not been abused they last for many, many years. If your voice coil looked like the one below though, that's abuse. It should be bright copper in color, not burnt toast. Burnt toast is because of trying way too much power way too long through them.
Abused:

Not Abused:

 

[JW56789]

It was like that straight out of the boxes (one of the 10's in the Metro and the single 15 in the 115XLT). This was during the transition from the OG Eden to the new buyer, USMusic, who wouldn't touch 'em. I'm only sorry I sold them at a huge loss BEFORE I started collecting Italian-production Berettas. Bear in mind, they came out of brand new, undamaged boxes (we opened them at the store) and there wasn't a mark on them. They were shipped bad.

I bought them thru Corner Music here in Nashville, and how they did get them to go back was we carefully put them back in the boxes, and essentially they refused shipment. USM/Eden sent replacements, and sure enough, one day of trying them out at very moderate volume levels at home, one of the Metro 10's separated at the bottom of the surround where it met the dust cover. We put some black adhesive at the tear, and I soldiered on with that smoking pile till I couldn't look at it again without my blood pressure doubling.

Absolutely, bar none, nothing is close, the worst amp experience I ever had where I had nothing to do with it. I've played for years and knew better than to floor brand new amps and cabs, and I've always been careful with power levels and extreme EQ. The funny thing, I played Peaveys for years, and while they had all the tone of a box of corn flakes, you couldn't break them. The Eden junk broke itself.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

So I pulled out my Eden rig yesterday after 2+ years of hibernation and I'm experiencing two different problems. Curious what you all would advise as a best course of action?

On the D210XLT I'm getting pretty bad distortion/buzzing with any note on the E string. Mainly when played with some level of dynamic attack. If I play super soft and quiet things sound Ok. I noticed that the speakers are creased, which is something I just learned about. I'm not that familiar with blown speakers...are these blown? Note only the top cab is plugged in in this video:


On the D212XLT I'm finding what appears to be a problem with the tweeter. This video's not as obvious, but I'm turning the tweeter on and off. When the tweeter is on you can hear a bit of buzzy distortion.


I also just discovered that Eden's no longer in business. I've loved the sound of these cabs but wondering if it's worth the money to fix? I bought these used and probably paid $300-400 each. I've read reports of a single replacement speaker costing as much as $275.

Anybody gone through this recently? Thanks for your input!

Wow had to turn that D210XLT sound off before I got even half way through it! It hurt to hear that! The D212XLT also sounds blown. You should never hear that level of distortion on an Eden cab.

Eden is currently owned (as mentioned earlier) by Gear4Music.com. They are a huge retailer in the UK. However, Marshall still does the manufacturing, which were the terms of the sale. So there is a chance you can get some new Eden replacement speakers.

Here are the speaker numbers with the most recent ones first.

Eden by Marshall speaker numbers:

D212XLT - SPKR-70023, 8Ω 12"speaker for 4Ω cab
SPKR-70024, 16Ω 12"speaker for 8Ω cab

D210XLT - SPKR-70001, 4Ω 10" Speaker for 8Ω cab
SPKR-70002, 8Ω 10" Speaker for 4Ω cab​

The original Eden numbers did not have separate numbers for each ohm speaker, but you had to specify which cab they were for and the ohm rating of the cab. Typically they used 8Ω and 16Ω for the 2-speaker cabs, using two 4Ω wired in series for their 2-speaker 8Ω cabs, and two of the 8Ω speakers wired in parallel for their 2-speaker 4Ω cabs. Check the back or side of the magnet on yours when you pull them out to be sure you have the correct match so you don't need to do any re-wiring.

Original Eden Numbers:

D212XLT - EC-1260G, 12"speaker
D210XLT - EC-1060XL, 10"speaker
​

Right before Marshall closed the Eden Forum, Uriah Duffy (former Whitesnake bassist) had put up a bunch of 10" EC-1060XL speakers both Eden original and Eden by Eminence in 8Ω, 16Ω and 32Ω, all in their own individual boxes up on our Classifieds section. These were all spares that he no longer needed. Had someone looking for Eden replacement speakers a while back and I wrote to Uriah to see if he still had them, but never heard back. Probably one of your best bets would be go to Eden's Facebook page and ask them how to get a replacement speaker.

If that doesn't work, I would call Eminence directly. They never sold Eden replacement speakers to the public though, you had to go directly through Eden to get them. But after about 2012 Eminence was manufacturing all of them. I remember it took them a few tries to hit the specs and match the sound, but they nailed it.

The specs of the Eden speakers are still proprietary as far as I know but since Eminence manufactured them for many years they should have a record of the specs to refer to and should be able to suggest an appropriate substitute if you can't get the OEM speakers from a request on Eden's FB page .

 

[Runlikegregg]

You need to recone your speakers.
there may be people that can probably do it.
honestly, it's probably not worth it.
it's expensive.

 

[sawzalot]

It sounds to me like in the second video (with the 212) there's some overdrive on your bass. Overdrive has a natural "fizzy" sound to it that you won't hear with the tweeter turned down, but you most definitely will hear with it turned up. The test would be to try it with headphones and no cabs connected. If you hear the "fizzy" sound in headphones, then the speaker is just reproducing what's already there. If not, then you have an issue in the LPad, crossover network, or tweeter itself.

 

[BOOG]

So I pulled out my Eden rig yesterday after 2+ years of hibernation and I'm experiencing two different problems. Curious what you all would advise as a best course of action?

On the D210XLT I'm getting pretty bad distortion/buzzing with any note on the E string. Mainly when played with some level of dynamic attack. If I play super soft and quiet things sound Ok. I noticed that the speakers are creased, which is something I just learned about. I'm not that familiar with blown speakers...are these blown? Note only the top cab is plugged in in this video:


On the D212XLT I'm finding what appears to be a problem with the tweeter. This video's not as obvious, but I'm turning the tweeter on and off. When the tweeter is on you can hear a bit of buzzy distortion.


I also just discovered that Eden's no longer in business. I've loved the sound of these cabs but wondering if it's worth the money to fix? I bought these used and probably paid $300-400 each. I've read reports of a single replacement speaker costing as much as $275.

Anybody gone through this recently? Thanks for your input!

Maybe reach out to DNA (David Nordschow Amplification)? If for no other reason, he probably has something you could replace them with that sound close and surpass the old gear reliability.
DNA Amps - David Nordschow Amplification - Bass Amps

edit: disregard my suggestion. I dug deeper into the website and I didn't see any way to contact them directly. It seems DNA only makes contact with distributors.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

It sounds to me like in the second video (with the 212) there's some overdrive on your bass. Overdrive has a natural "fizzy" sound to it that you won't hear with the tweeter turned down, but you most definitely will hear with it turned up. The test would be to try it with headphones and no cabs connected. If you hear the "fizzy" sound in headphones, then the speaker is just reproducing what's already there. If not, then you have an issue in the LPad, crossover network, or tweeter itself.

Speaking of the L-pad (tweeter control) on Eden cabs, NEVER turn it all the way off because it will burn out the L-pad. Just turn it on very slightly if you don't want to hear the tweeter. If you turn it all the way off, then none of the power gets to the tweeter but stops at the Light-bulb fuse that's in there. You'll see that bulb/fuse light up and glow when that happens (shows through the grill) and if it stays on long, it will burn out that automotive light bulb/fuse but not until is has ruined the L-pad itself. It will also sometimes glow momentarily when you are running lots of power through it, but it won't stay on and that's fine. If it stays on, you are on the verge of burning out the L-pad. If you never want to use the tweeter on an Eden cab, open up the L-pad and remove the bulb/fuse. If you decide to use it in the future, just re-install that bulb/fuse.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Maybe reach out to DNA (David Nordschow Amplification)? If for no other reason, he probably has something you could replace them with that sound close and surpass the old gear reliability.
DNA Amps - David Nordschow Amplification - Bass Amps

Bad news is that the speakers that David makes now are completely different than the ones he used in the Eden cabs. They have a longer throw and larger voice coil. He's also using textured and flared ports on his DNS cabs which pass a lot more air through them more quickly than the standard round and shelf ports he used on his Eden designs. So the math using the round and shelf ports he used on his Eden cabs are not what these speakers are designed for. Still, he would know if anyone would, whether or not they might work. But I still think checking with Eden's Facebook page first would be the right move. Replace with originals or Re-cone if the parts are available. Re-coning is often far less than replacement, but they have to be done correctly and with the right parts or it won't sound the same.

Also, be aware that DNA is still pretty much a boutique builder, meaning it's a small operation. Also David only has one hand so he's not real good at e-mails. All the ones I've received from him have been very short.

 

[BOOG]

Bad news is that the speakers that David makes now are completely different than the ones he used in the Eden cabs. They have a longer throw and larger voice coil. He's also using textured and flared ports on his DNS cabs which pass a lot more air through them more quickly than the standard round and shelf ports he used on his Eden designs. So the math using the round and shelf ports he used on his Eden cabs are not what these speakers are designed for. Still, he would know if anyone would, whether or not they might work. But I still think checking with Eden's Facebook page first would be the right move. Replace with originals or Re-cone if the parts are available. Re-coning is often far less than replacement, but they have to be done correctly and with the right parts or it won't sound the same.

Also, be aware that DNA is still pretty much a boutique builder, meaning it's a small operation. Also David only has one hand so he's not real good at e-mails. All the ones I've received from him have been very short.

Understood and thank you for the info.
Ultimately, I thought it might motivate the OP to look at replacing the Eden's with DNA cabs instead of the diy project.