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Help! I love and HATE my band (long)

artdrtr

artdrtr

Jan 24, 2008
539
7
Redondo Beach, CA
#1
I've been in a classic rock cover band now for almost a year. I am a few years new to bass but can carry my own and have gigged out several times. The other guys have really improved my play very quickly since they are better then I am, but it doesn't show on stage now and we sound good together. I don't sing, but my bass lines carry a lot of the songs. I am organized and I guess "the leader" since I handle the list, the auditions for singers in the past and picked most of the songs we do.

Singer: We added a singer from a previous band 7 months ago after auditioning too many singers that couldn't handle our list. He is a friend who came with known drama for being a flake and into drugs(pot/coke). BUT he has a great voice and will sing any range from Zep-Foreigner-Joe Jackson-Elton-Clapton, etc.. But he cannot get past the cheat sheets ON STAGE... When he tries to sing without sheets he skips verses, misses timings, skips chorus and does verse/verse/chorus stuff leaving me out to dry several times trying to change gears..

The guitarist: knows all the words and can 'sing', but is not a lead singer. He is a great guitarist and carries that for the band, but will not learn structure and leads on songs he doesn't like, but will insist on it for his 'favorites'. He smokes pot, but it doesn't affect his play.

The drummer: can sing backup and "tries" to sing some leads, but it turns into screaming/growling into the mic like its punk rock..also a pot smoker.

Here are the issues:

1. I don't care about the casual pot (I don't do it) but IF it doesn't affect their play, so be it. I drink casual. But the singer's drug issues have affected his play, his life, and now ours since we are gigging out and he can't be responsible enough to learn the songs without cheat sheets.

2. In the middle of our set, the guitarist throws out the list (I did and we all agreed on) and starts calling out songs throwing our singer into a tailspin searching for the lyrics ON STAGE in a pile at my feet. Needless to say, we're standing there arguing on what to play next. I'm telling them to stick with the list. He insists he wants to do other songs (that we're gonna play later on)

3. We played 45 of the 58 planned songs because of deciding songs on stage, extending "hey look at me" songs, and taking too long for breaks. (I really wanted to play all the songs)

4. Our drummer can't sing without screaming into the mic out of frustration being out of key

5. Our singer can't get off the cheat sheets on stage and really F'd up several songs to the point we almost stopped during one ... because everyone was so lost.

6. Our guitarist stretches out several "hey look at me" jam songs the audience has to sit through, meanwhile he hates doing "typical bar songs" even though the people want to hear that... He'll clear a crowded dance floor calling out No More Mr. Nice Guy... he just doesn't get it.

7. Guitarist treats shows like jam rehearsals: no list, changing song structures, beginnings, endings, etc.


I do like the guys as friends and we all respect each other’s musical talents.

I don't want to leave the band, since I've put too much into it and basically holding it together.

We’re a 1-2x a month gigs, and a 1x a week practice band. And we do do a lot of songs I chose and like to play at practice, so its cool but I consider gigs different then practice and I don't think they see the difference???

Anyone care to share an outsider perspective - should I lighten up? or try to tighten them up?

Should we dump the singer and start from square 1 after 7 months?

Should I tell the drummer he can't sing? Audience has told me that.

Should I tell the guitarist he's not a 46 yr old rock star and we're just a great bar band?
:help:
 
#2
Man - I would be outta there in a flash. If you think their pot smoking isn't affecting their playing and your band then you are kidding yourself.

I seriously don't know where to start - every negative you listed would have me out before you got to #3.

Either find another band or find new members. You are letting these guys ruin whatever good thing you have going on. They are clearing not as committed to the band as what you are if they are going doing things like that.
 
#4
Honestly, this band sounds like it`s in a really bad situation. You really should talk to each member individually and then as a group and decide where each of you is and where you want to be in the near and distant future. It also sounds like you want to play in a band with your buds and have fun, but also be professional when it comes to learning songs and gigging out. The others, however, sound like they just want to jack around and stay a sub-par garage band.

Find out where everyone is and also be real to yourself and find out where you are in this whole situation. IMHO, I really think you`d be better off leaving the band and joining another who wants to have fun but be professional about what they do.
 
#5
I know exactly what your saying, and I've been trying to keep the group together without being confrontational. But I had to let the singer have it the other week over his drug issues and cheat sheets since we had an important gig to get through.

I have more of a relationship with the drummer and Guitarist, so I don't know how to approach their 'issues'....

Since we all do get long, and playing with them helps my abilities, I think I'm going to gently push issues where needed, and maybe start to look around at options. Music is an escape for me from tough (economic/family) day-to-day issues, so I'd like to keep what I have in place.

jmattbassplaya said:
Honestly, this band sounds like it`s in a really bad situation. You really should talk to each member individually and then as a group and decide where each of you is and where you want to be in the near and distant future. It also sounds like you want to play in a band with your buds and have fun, but also be professional when it comes to learning songs and gigging out. The others, however, sound like they just want to jack around and stay a sub-par garage band.

Find out where everyone is and also be real to yourself and find out where you are in this whole situation. IMHO, I really think you`d be better off leaving the band and joining another who wants to have fun but be professional about what they do.
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#6
You're the band leader. Crack the whip and get those slackers into shape.

1) No cheat sheets after first rehearsal of a song. Singer is going to sink or swim - hopefully he swims. Dock his pay for each cheat sheet on stage.

2) At gigs, the set list is followed to the letter unless there's a request from the audience. Switch the list up for every gig. No exceptions. Dock pay every time someone starts playing the wrong song.

3) A hefty part of the guitarist's job is learning the set list. If he's not doing his job, you don't pay him. Every forgotten lead or song structure gets a pay dock.

4) Bring the drummer's vox down in the FOH mix, bring all of the vocals up in his monitor mix. If he's still singing out of key, take his mic away until he shapes up.
 
#7
It doesn't affect the guitarist and drummers playing, but it does affect the singer's so I let him have it the other week since we had a gig coming up.

I'm not their mom and can't tell them what to do on their time, but I can tell them what I expect on our time -- I sound like Mr. Hand

stoneboy26 said:
Man - I would be outta there in a flash. If you think their pot smoking isn't affecting their playing and your band then you are kidding yourself.

I seriously don't know where to start - every negative you listed would have me out before you got to #3.

Either find another band or find new members. You are letting these guys ruin whatever good thing you have going on. They are clearing not as committed to the band as what you are if they are going doing things like that.
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#8
unfortunately pay is not an incentive for these guys. They'd play for free. Like I said, they take playing out as a jam session with an audience -- problem is when we F up behind doors its okay, but doing it in front of people sux...

Nick Kay said:
You're the band leader. Crack the whip and get those slackers into shape.

1) No cheat sheets after first rehearsal of a song. Singer is going to sink or swim - hopefully he swims. Dock his pay for each cheat sheet on stage.

2) At gigs, the set list is followed to the letter unless there's a request from the audience. Switch the list up for every gig. No exceptions. Dock pay every time someone starts playing the wrong song.

3) A hefty part of the guitarist's job is learning the set list. If he's not doing his job, you don't pay him. Every forgotten lead or song structure gets a pay dock.

4) Bring the drummer's vox down in the FOH mix, bring all of the vocals up in his monitor mix. If he's still singing out of key, take his mic away until he shapes up.
Click to expand...
 
#10
We came up with a wide ranging 70+ song list and auditioned 10? singers before ending up with the current guy. All said it was crazy to expect someone to do it, and most lost their voices (the Zep did it).
Our current guy has a great voice and attitude to do them all, but I will be the first to admit, has too many other distractions.

They've smoked lightly during rehearsal, but not at gigs....

Lutuh said:
Easy to say, but I'd leave it. Especially that with your singer is too bad, since really great voices aren't found around every corner.

Out of interest: You stated some of your mates smoke pot? Yo mean generally or actually during the rehearsal?
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#13
If I was at a venue where the band you've described is playing, I'd complain to the management and then leave.

Get the mic away from the drummer, loose the cheat sheets - everybody else learns their parts, right?

And buy a damn shock collar for that guitard!
 
#15
i say, play with them..
just don't expect to become a professional musician in a couple of months, the day you feel you are as good as they are, or even better, is time to get out. time to find your own band.

you say you are new to bass.. nothing compares to being in a band, and playing gigs.
that is the best practice.. you will become a better musician FAST

on the other side, every band has its problems, and you will hate every band for moments, but that is what makes a band.. life is that way, like a rollercoaster.. up and highs... lotta fun!
 
#16
Singer shouldn't need cheat sheets. It looks unprofessional. You have your parts memorized, why shouldn't he?

Guitard should stop being such a drama queen. It's not all about him and his egocentric switching of set list order and even song structure harms the band's performance.

The drummer should learn to sing better if he's going to sing. I know of few drummers that do much lead vocal duty, anyway.

If you're going to be the leader, you've got to get over avoiding confrontation. Leaders can't do that. Leaders have to be ready to tell it like it is and get things done. Also, do you do any of the singing?
 
#17
ok first things first, who cares if they smoke pot? im sorry but i smoke pot every session my band does and it doesnt affect anything. in your story the pot could have been left out since its not pot cause problems / end pro pot rant

now on to the band. id sit them down and tell them simply shape up or ship out! the singer needs to get his ass in gear, learning they lyrics to 58 songs, roughly 5 albums of material. i bet everyone here knows that many songs. cheat sheets are lazyiness. even if he were to review the problem songs 3 times a day he could figure them out.

guitard........ if i ever went on stage and they guitard starting pissing and moaning about the prearranged set list and blatantly started playing randomness, id be having a serious talk with him. plus remmeber the no were not rockstars thing.

doing stuff that isnt the set list during practice is one thing, on stage is another. unless lets say set 2 is about to end and suddenly your left with only set three stuff then well you guys went a bit too fast so yeah add some stuff in, hell jam out twinkle twinkle little star in death metal.

if this stuff continues then id bounce, your doing a hell of allot for a band that seems to not really care. allot of bands would love to have a bassist who knows there role and knows allot about band management. i dont recall seeing it but who gets the gigs booked?
 
#18
The singer is a car wreck. You need to drop him. It sounds like he doesn't have his life together and it's affecting his performance in the band as a consequence. I have personally had enough of playing with singers who can't get the lyrics down...the searching for the sheet for a specific song during a show is totally lame. It makes the band look amateur, and frankly I'd be embarassed if I was on stage while that was happening. I would say to talk with the singer, but I think you'll be wasting your time, especially if he is on pot and coke like you said. Fire him and get someone competent.
 
#20
Thank you all for your comments -- I appreciate the advise.

Update:

Guitarist: I confronted the guitarist about the song list changing on stage and he apologized for it. Said he was not following the list that night since we just told him the next songs and at that moment the singer was hesitating on the next song and he took it as needing to call something out like we do at practice.... I told him he had a list at his feet an we needed to follow it. He agreed - that issue closed.

The singer: I told him to get off the cheat sheets which make us all look lame. He knows, but I'm not sure he has the capacity to ditch the security blanket -- he is on a very short lease now and he now knows it. Ball in his court.

Drummer: He sounds good on 1-2 of the 5 songs he lead sings.
Do I tell him he can do those, but we need to rethink him doing the others?

A good friend of mine (an ex roommate who first taught me guitar) was at our gig and gave me a complete, hold nothing back review of our group individually, and as a whole -- I'd like to share my review, since TB has been a inspiration to me these past 2 years on my journey learning the bass -- not sure I would have reached this point if I had not found TB:

"Thanks so much for soliciting my advice...(You chose the right guy---I always have pretty strong opinions, but as you know, I have played in a ton of bands and tend to know this stuff pretty well by now...)

First of all, I will honestly say I was pretty blown away with your bass playing...Obviously, I haven't seen you in years, so it was sort of a trip just to see you up there with a band jamming...But you were, by far, the best thing in the band, and I mean that with TOTAL sincerity. You really were the anchor up there, and I can see you being a valuable member of any really good rock band out there...Not to mention, being left-handed, it just looked so damn cool with your P-bass...Your sound was fine...I am sure you would have rather been playing out of your Fender amp, but your tone was crisp and I could hear every note very clearly from where I was sitting...If I was going to "grade" you, I would give you an easy A- to B+. By far the strongest member of the band!!"


The other guys didn't fair so well on their reviews, but with his and your advise, I have a good idea where I stand and where I need to go forward from here...

Thanks again TB
 

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