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Help! I've never bought separate amp components!

J

jroget803

Aug 18, 2013
6
0
#1
So, long time stalker, first time poster.

I need some recommendations. I've never bought a head and cabinet before, but it's looking like it's time. The combo amps just aren't cutting it for me anymore.

Here's what I want:

1 4 x 10 Cab
1 1 x 15 (or 18) Cab
1 Amp Head (1000 W or greater)

Any thoughts? Is Hartke overkill?
 
#4
This has been discussed ad nauseum here on talkbass. You will get better sound with two MATCHED cabinets. Using mismatched cabs (like a 410 and 115) is not the best alternative. The 15 will reach its mechanical limits before the 410. Size of speaker does NOT equate with low end response. Do a search, and I'm sure others will chime in as well, matched cabs will work best . . . This has been learned through 42 years of bass playing (and yes, I play 5 strings almost exclusively now).
 
#8
I'd also like to know why you need a 1000w amp.
Loudness comes from more speakers, not more amp watts. This is a good thing to note.

If you really want an amp that powerful you had better have a fat enough wallet to buy the high-end cabs you will require to handle it.
 
#9
Be prepared for the fanboys to turn up now and tell you there is only one way to go - their way!

You are not likely to gain any useful info from this thread beyond the idea that adding a 15 doesn't add low end.

Start reading - I suggest greenboy and fearful as good places to start searching to get some high quality cabs at reasonable pricing. Spend some time reading up on all the different cabs mentioned in those threads - from all manufacturers - and then read up the post histories of the people making the recommendations. See who has been around and tried stuff and who is a one trick pony.

There is a TON of good info here, and 2 tons of crap. Start your education now.
 
#11
Thanks Carl.

IPYF, this is the education that I need. I'm used to combo amps where your wattage directly relates to your loudness...

If I'd be better served with a 500W head and 2 410s or 412s, then that would be great info
 
#14
kilgoja said:
yeah like i said go GK fusion 550 head (500w) and 4x12 neo cab. you get punch and warmness together.
Click to expand...

That is my rig for the last several years and is a flawless powerhouse.

2 410's or a 412 will outperform the miss matched 410+115 everytime. The fEarful boys are offering good advice also. A well designed cab is a beautiful thing if you have the scratch for it (not a inexpensive option). Just remember watts do not make sound, speakers do. 500 to 800 watts is plenty into good cabs to compete and have the PoPo shutting you down. :D
 
#15
jroget803 said:
Thanks Carl.

IPYF, this is the education that I need. I'm used to combo amps where your wattage directly relates to your loudness...

If I'd be better served with a 500W head and 2 410s or 412s, then that would be great info
Click to expand...

I usually suggest that a 500w head and two matched 8ohm cabs is the way to go for almost anyone. The cab selection should be based on your budget and also the kind of rehearsal/gig structure you're used to. Having matched cabs also means that you can leave one of them behind when you're doing something smaller.

In a cab you're looking for a high wattage rating and a good solid lightweight design. A good rule of thumb is to try to have twice as many watts in cab as you do in an amp ie. for 500w of amp you are best having 1000w total of cab. This is often a pretty expensive scenario, but the result is that your speakers are pretty safe from being overloaded.

As it has been mentioned, you do not want to mix driver sizes. It's easiest just to accept this as gospel rather than get bogged down in the 'why' of that particular conversation. If you're interested though this forum has some good stickies outlining this issue.

I honestly have never come across a scenario where a 500w head and a pair of efficient 410 boxes hasn't been more than enough grunt. If that's not loud enough then realistically other people in the room need to turn down.

The next step is to get out and do some playing. Go into stores and try out amps. Find which ones feel like they suit your playing style. We could all name a dozen rigs that might work for you, but the only way to figure this out properly is to let your own ears do the legwork.
 
#16
Go out and try as much stuff as possible and don't get bogged down with brands and what's hot or not at the moment. Mixing cab size is certainly not the best option and can lead to you destroying the 15" driver: usually because it can reach its maximum mechanic limit faster and is placed on the ground, so you can't hear it die because the 410 is closer to your ears. That doesn't mean it can't work since a lot of people have played that setup over the years. It's not optimal, though (and we aren't getting in phasing and canceling issues here).

Don't forget that used is very often a good option. A lot of players are tone chasers and this means that the used market is usually very good and deals can be had all the time (moreso than with basses imho).
 
#18
IPYF said:
In a cab you're looking for a high wattage rating and a good solid lightweight design. A good rule of thumb is to try to have twice as many watts in cab as you do in an amp ie. for 500w of amp you are best having 1000w total of cab.
Click to expand...

I understand the point you're trying to make here, but you're talking about SEVERELY underpowering the drivers which can be just as bad. Drivers usually have a minimum rms/current rating because there needs to be enough current to move the speaker enough to cool the coil otherwise the diaphragm will freeze (just like tweeters on bass cabs do when you run their volume to low instead of disconnecting it). Then you have to think of the SPL of the cab. 500 watts through a 98dB SPL Ampeg will sound weak compared to 500 watts through a 105dB SPL cab because of the inefficiency of the Ampeg cab. The key to reproducing low frequencies well is headroom. You need extra horsepower, especially with 5'ers, to reproduce those huge frequency waves. A high powered amp that doesn't have to be cranked to be loud will reproduce low frequencies much better than a high strung smaller amp. I use my 4 ohm Epifani PS410 (800 watts rms and 102dB SPL) with a Carvin DCM1000L bridged (1000 watts rms @ 4 ohms). I never have a problem with hearing myself or with the speakers farting out, but I'm also not boosting a ton of sub frequencies to make up for the amp "running out of breath" and I'm running compression.
 

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