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Help me decide…. SBMM or EBMM?

#41
EBMM are so bulletproof and hold great value buying second hand. Yes they are more expensive but if you are patient and get a decent deal on a used one I doubt that money would be lost easily if you ever wanted to sell it. I got super lucky a few months ago and scored a pristine 5H and I know that bass has an easy $500-1000 profit in it but best wishes to whomever cashes that after they pry it from my cold dead hands!
 
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#42
Tony G said:
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I have a bass that for $400 gets me 85% of the “experience” of a bass that now retails for $2500.
...
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, are you talking about about the Ray34? $400 is Ray4 (SUB) territory, which will not get you anywhere close to 85% of the "experience".

Tony G said:
...
I’m a little surprised that there hasn’t been more people here ready to defend the SBMM ray34.
...
Click to expand...

I'll defend my SBMM Ray34 with as much energy as I defend my EBMM SR4. First off I will make these disclaimers:
  1. My Ray34 is an early (2012) model that has been improved with Hipshot HB-1 'Short Key' tuning machines, although there were no problems with the OEM parts other than the aesthetic - I didn't like to look of the SBMM 'long' key. Mechanically I had none of the problems that seem to marr later tuning machines, although I believe these issues have now been resolved.
  2. My EBMM is also an older (1991) model, not the newer Special.
  3. They have both been professionally set up, including PLEK. I bought them both used so I can't vouch for how they were from the factory, other than to say the fret end finishing on the SBMM was not great - I had the edges rolled as part of the setup;
  4. the pickups on both have been changed to ceramic, but for reasons of personal preference, not for any fault or shortcomings in either OEM part. Both of the original SBMM and EBMM AlNiCo pickups were great and with no discernable differences - I just prefer ceramic in this application.
With all that said, there is so little between them (other than the obvious!) that I would really struggle to justify replacing the Ray34 with an SR4. The fit and finish on both is impeccable; the hardware, including quality of plating is comparable with no discernable differences; they both feel 'alive' and are really easy on the hands; they both make the entire range of sounds I need without compromise. IME, the Ray34, at least my example, oozes Music Man DNA and I am more than happy to play both side by side. I bought the SBMM in 2015 and it has been a solid issue-free performer since then, with almost daily use.

Minor differences include plastic vs bone nut and slightly deeper/sleeker body and neck contouring on the EBMM, but that's about it.

I will add that the (stainless) fretwork on the Specials is amongst the best of any production models I have ever played - you won't get that with any off-the-shelf SBMM model, IME.

YMMV
 
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#44
Spectre Gunner said:
Just go for it and get the USA Ernie Ball MM Stingray or better yet a Special or take it up a notch go with one of their limited edition BFR models. New or used, these models lack the flaws you described. Also, the memory of owning those funds will rapidly erode and playing one will accelerate that process.

They are not at all cheap but they are comparable in quality to a US Made Sadowsy or MTD. I own all three of these brands and I can attest that they are all similar in build quality. However, the EBMM is more competitively priced. That is mainly because the SD and the MTD are meticuously made by hand while the EBMM uses more automation. These are all different animals but I don't find anything lacking with my two Ball Family Reserve models. While the USA EBMMs seem pricey they cost significantly less than most off the shelf boutique basses. They're a good value within the range of off-the-shelf (non custom) boutique basses.

I might be the devil on your left shoulder talking but this is TB by the way so there's that.

View attachment 5218097 View attachment 5218098
Click to expand...
You hit the nail on the head!!!! People complain about Ernie Ball prices but fail to realize they really do rival boutique builders.
They have their own signature designs, sound and feel ,just like a Spector, MTD, or Ken Smith.

The BFR’s and limited runs from the Vault are stellar!!!
 
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#46
So it really is a consistency thing more than anything. I own an 70’s, 90’s, mid 2000’s and a special. I got my ray 34 in a trade for like 500 bucks. Mine is phenomenal! I thought maybe I’m just not as picky. I played one of them sparkly Ray 34’s a few years back and the quality wasn’t near as good as mine. I don’t know the exact year of my Ray 34 but I know it’s a few years before Covid. Honestly I bet no one could tell the difference and may even prefer the Ray 34 in a blind test. The neck sets up super low and it’s just under 8 pounds. Oh. And the special is a different bass in my opinion. It plays amazing but I’m such an old Ray fan I had to change the pickup and preamp out to get the tone I like. It’s probably my best playing bass and the quality is great. I just like a more on your face tone since I have to cut through 2 Marshall’s half stacks.
 
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#47
I don't currently have a SR5 but I do have a Bongo 5, and if I'm being honest, after I did some fret dressing and sanded the neck on the Ray25CA, I actually prefer it to the neck on the Bongo. It's been some years since I've owned a SR5, but in reality the only thing I feel like I'm giving up is the birdseye maple neck (and the single coil mode - I installed a series/parallel switch). Blindfold me and I would never know.
 
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#48
SteveCS said:
Just to be clear, are you talking about about the Ray34? $400 is Ray4 (SUB) territory, which will not get you anywhere close to 85% of the "experience".



I'll defend my SBMM Ray34 with as much energy as I defend my EBMM SR4. First off I will make these disclaimers:
  1. My Ray34 is an early (2012) model that has been improved with Hipshot HB-1 'Short Key' tuning machines, although there were no problems with the OEM parts other than the aesthetic - I didn't like to look of the SBMM 'long' key. Mechanically I had none of the problems that seem to marr later tuning machines, although I believe these issues have now been resolved.
  2. My EBMM is also an older (1991) model, not the newer Special.
  3. They have both been professionally set up, including PLEK. I bought them both used so I can't vouch for how they were from the factory, other than to say the fret end finishing on the SBMM was not great - I had the edges rolled as part of the setup;
  4. the pickups on both have been changed to ceramic, but for reasons of personal preference, not for any fault or shortcomings in either OEM part. Both of the original SBMM and EBMM AlNiCo pickups were great and with no discernable differences - I just prefer ceramic in this application.
With all that said, there is so little between them (other than the obvious!) that I would really struggle to justify replacing the Ray34 with an SR4. The fit and finish on both is impeccable; the hardware, including quality of plating is comparable with no discernable differences; they both feel 'alive' and are really easy on the hands; they both make the entire range of sounds I need without compromise. IME, the Ray34, at least my example, oozes Music Man DNA and I am more than happy to play both side by side. I bought the SBMM in 2015 and it has been a solid issue-free performer since then, with almost daily use.

Minor differences include plastic vs bone nut and slightly deeper/sleeker body and neck contouring on the EBMM, but that's about it.

I will add that the (stainless) fretwork on the Specials is amongst the best of any production models I have ever played - you won't get that with any off-the-shelf SBMM model, IME.

YMMV
Click to expand...

The Ray34 I bought was “used, like new”, and I got it for a what I thought was a very good price, just about $400. It is definitely a Ray34. I finally got around to taking a picture. In the outdoor light, hopefully the phot shows what I mean about the paint job being almost like a reverse black burst with gray edges.

IMG_1350.jpeg
 
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#50
Tony G said:
The Ray34 I bought was “used, like new”, and I got it for a what I thought was a very good price, just about $400. It is definitely a Ray34. I finally got around to taking a picture. In the outdoor light, hopefully the phot shows what I mean about the paint job being almost like a reverse black burst with gray edges.

View attachment 5218317
Click to expand...

Looks like a later model with the StingRay logo and roasted neck. Nice, but worth keeping half an eye on the tuning machines.... Either way, $400 is a steal.
 
#56
@LadyLoveStingRay5

Yes, very possible. Between the truss rod and the not perfect paint job, the price seems fair. However, I am getting that truss wheel turned tiny bit by tiny bit, and I’ve achieved a very good straightness to the neck. It now has just a nice small bit of relief, and the slap action and tone is very much improved! The fingerstyle action and tone are still pretty killer, if not improved as well! I’m wondering if this is a function of the excellent roasted maple neck just being a very stiff wood that does not want to move too much too quickly. This is my first instrument with a roasted maple neck, so I’m not sure, but hopeful.

This is quickly turning into a keeper, and I’m thinking I will keep it around for a knock around instrument that will be great to take to not-so-great places and something that my kids may want to learn on. I’m having a lot of fun playing it, and getting those stingray tones back. It plays fast, sounds great, very light, very good price…I’m starting to wonder what I ever I had to complain about? lol
 
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#57
Tony G said:
Yes, and that rod bent trying to flatten the neck out. It can get the truss rod wheel to move, but it is very difficult.
Click to expand...

I've heard this a lot with the later Ray34. The EBMM necks have PTFE washers behind the nut, and I think my older Ray34 has the same - the truss rod is very easy and smooth to adjust and can be manipulated with great precision (just like my EBMM). I wonder if they removed that washer, or 'forgot' to put them in on some production runs?
 
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#58
SteveCS said:
I've heard this a lot with the later Ray34. The EBMM necks have PTFE washers behind the nut, and I think my older Ray34 has the same - the truss rod is very easy and smooth to adjust and can be manipulated with great precision (just like my EBMM). I wonder if they removed that washer, or 'forgot' to put them in on some production runs?
Click to expand...

Definitely a possibility!
 
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#60
Tony G said:
The Ray34 I bought was “used, like new”, and I got it for a what I thought was a very good price, just about $400. It is definitely a Ray34. I finally got around to taking a picture. In the outdoor light, hopefully the phot shows what I mean about the paint job being almost like a reverse black burst with gray edges.

View attachment 5218317
Click to expand...

Is it possible that the grey edges (reverse burst) is actually on purpose? I know Fender has a few finishes like that, but more pronounced. It seems like an odd flaw.
 

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