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Double Bass Help Me Decide Between...

Which Should I Go With (Read Post For Context)?

  • Helicore Pizzicato (preferred option)

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • Helicore Arco (preferred option)

    Votes: 1 5.9%

  • Super Sensitive Red Label (less preferred)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Thomastick Dominants (less preferred)

    Votes: 1 5.9%

  • Other (least preferred)

    Votes: 14 82.4%
  • Total voters
    17
phnord

phnord

Oct 26, 2010
144
22
Brooklyn, NY
www.andibuch.com
#1
At this point, I have a very specific question that I want to have answered.

Everyone has recommended to me the Spirocore Weich strings - and I'm definitely going with Spirocores.

The problem is that I have a 3/4 bass, and I can't get a hold of 3885 3/4 Spirocore Weich strings for a reasonable price -- but I can get either the S42 4/4 Spirocore Weich strings or the S42 4/4 Spirocore Mittel strings.

Here are how the tensions of these three strings break down when strung up on a 3/4 bass:

Code: 
			G	D	A	E	Total
S42 4/4 Light		55.3	59.3	61.4	63.4	239.4
3885 3/4 Light		60.6	61.7	63.9	66.1	252.3
S42 4/4 Medium		61.4	65.5	69.6	69.6	266.1

Seeing as the middle option - the 3885 3/4 Lights - aren't an option, which one should I go with? An even lighter 4/4 Light or a heavier 4/4 middle? What kind of trade-offs can I expect in each direction?

Thanks!

- Andy

Original post quoted below, as it explains the context in which I will be using said strings


Here's my situation.

I used to play upright back in grade school (around 1995 - 2001). As I've been playing a bunch of jazz lately, I'm moving back towards said upright and want to get it into good shape. As it still has whatever beginner, high-tension steel strings that were on it when I first bought it, it's time to restring.

I'll mostly be playing jazz - thus pizzicato is very important. I'd also like to experiment with arco-jazz.

I have no idea what kind of tone I'm looking for. I know when I play electric I'm looking for something with clarity of both pitch and note placement, that cuts through the mix while retaining the bottom. I don't know what that translates to for the double bass.

I suppose it would be nice to have something that doesn't have a lot of tension -- although after having played a bit with the strings that are on there now my fingers are pretty strong. I'd like something that's pretty loud as well, so that playing un-amplified in small-to-medium gigging situations is a possibility.

My budget is pretty slim. However, as I work at Sam Ash as a music instructor I can get very nice discounts on what they carry in the store.

My two main options are medium Helicore Pizz. and Helicore Orchestral. They have sets of each of those in stock to fit my 3/4 bass

I also *may* be able to get a set of Super Sensitive Red Labels for cheaper or a set of Dominants for about double the price. I may be able to ask them to special-order some other strings as well, but that's much more iffy.

Given my situation, would you recommend the Helicore Pizz or Arcos more? Or would you suggest I look at a different string entirely?
Click to expand...
 
#2
First off, do you prefer the tone of something that's brighter and growly or a dark, warm tone? Second, you may want to see if you can get some Helicore Hybrids or D'addario Zyex as they are both meant for hybrid use. I personally use Pirastro Evah Pirazzi weich gauge strings but they are not exactly the cheapest string on the market. If you want more information, email or call sites like Quinn Violins, Lemur Music, or Gollihur Music.
 
#3
If you are playing jazz, do not go with Helicore Orchestra, they are too dark and very stiff under the fingers. If you have to go with Helicore because of the lower price, either the Hybrids or Pizz will work. The Pizz are brighter. You might try the light set as you are starting out and they will be easier under your fingers.

If you can spend the money though, I would go with Spirocore Weichs. Highest quality, sound great, decent with the bow, and last a long time.
 
#5
What is it that makes the Helicore Pizz. not work well for arco? What will happen if I try to bow them?

Also, how significant is the difference between the Medium Helicore Pizz. and the Weich Spirocores?

The reason I ask is that there's a good chance that I can get the Medium Helicore Pizz. for as low as $70, whereas I don't know what kind of discount (if any) I can get on the Spirocores.
 
#6
A lot depends on the bass, too. You'll just have to try them. There is a set of Zyex for $90 in the classifieds. They are worth a try, too.

Pizz helicores are very bright pizz, so they will be very bright, maybe scatchy, bowed. Will you like them?, just have to try. Medium strings usually have more tension than light strings. If you are determined to spend as little as possible, give the heli's a go. A few years ago, it was common to get a bad string in the package. Maybe they've resolved this by now.
 
#8
If budget is of the highest importance, I would highly encourage you to consider the Spiro Weichs suggested by the others. D'Addario makes a fine string, imho- but will YOU like them? Unknown, until you try them.

If they work, great! :)

If not, then the effective price of the Spiros has gone up by the cost of the unwanted string.

Spiro Weichs have the classic growl, and contrary to some info you may find, they bow just fine. They may be a bit lively at the outset, but they will settle in after a month or so and sound great for years and years. Seriously! Some folks keep them on for DECADES!!!

In the HIGHLY unlikely event that the Weichs aren't your cup of tea, you can EASILY sell a fresh set here in the classifieds and recoup the majority of your expenditure.

You may also consider waiting for a used set of Weichs to show up in the classifieds- some cats dig that "fresh string sound" and change them out frequently.

So, if you HAVE to get it right on the first try, consider the Spiro Weich. I suspect you will have more people posting to support this position...

All that said, D'Addario pizz or hybrid strings don't suck, or I should say they didn't suck when I used them about a decade ago...

Best of luck with your decision, what ever it may be. Please share your experience with us.

Joe
 
#9
You can bow the helicore pizz strings but they are a bit more difficult than the arco strings. Similarly you can pluck the arco strings but they don't have the same growl and sustain of a jazz string. It's hard to explain what you're going to have to decide between, really.

Sorry to say this but in all likelihood you won't be satisfied with the first set of strings you buy. Maybe not even the fifth set. Eventually you'll probably settle on a weird hybrid set like a spiro medium E, weich A and D and an evah pirazzi G or something like that, but you will have bought a lot of strings by then including the expensive ones.

One bit of good news is that if you decide you want to try different strings you can usually find a buyer for the set you're taking off, so you can recoup some of the cost.
 
#10
Okay - right now it's coming down to a toss-up between the Helicore Pizz. Medium and the Spirocore Weich's.

I just got my bass back from the repair shop, and I've noticed that with the soundpost properly positioned it has a prety dark, loud boomy tone to it. The resonance seems to be centered around the open D string, right around 75 Hz.

For the record, I have no idea what strings are on there now - I know that they're steel, heavy tension and have been on there since probably around 17 years.

Considering that the tone is pretty boomy as it stands (and assuming that's not just due to the current strings), I figure some sort of bright pizz-oriented strings are the way to go.

So that said, if you guys could give me a very direct comparison between the tonality of the two strings, I would really appreciate it!

From what I gather, the Spiros will be better at arco than the Helicore Pizz. I'm not sure what "better" means exactly in this case - easier to play? Smoother tone? Brighter tone? Warmer tone?

And how do their pizz. sounds stack up against each other? Is one harsher / brighter than the other?

What about feel?

Thanks again!
 
#12
Get the Spiros for a brighter tone and get the right set: 3885.0W for 3/4 (up to 106 cm) and S42W for scales over 106cm.

Play them at least a few months before you finally decide you don't like them. Tone will change a lot in the first weeks and stiffness will be reduced on the lower stings the more you play them (with the bow).

I took my first set of Spiros down after about 20 years, but I didn't play much for a longer time. The first weeks (and months) can be a bit hard, put it pay off getting through this time.
Also with Spiros you can hear your intonation better than with darker sounding strings.
 
#13
Ryanpet42 said:
What do the strings look like at the tailpiece?
Click to expand...

The current, 17-year-old "heavy gauge steel strings" (according to my repair guy) have blue wraps at the top and bottom. Pictures attached
 

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#15
I really appreciate the feedback so far, but my main question still remains: how do the Spiros compare tonally to the Heliocore Pizz.

What makes them better for pizz.? Are they brighter? Warmer? Fuller? Smoother? Easier to play?

And same questions for arco: what makes them better? Are they brighter? Warmer? Fuller? Smoother? Easier to play?
 
#16
I have never used Helicore Pizz but I have used Spirocore S42 weich and the weichs definitely are a bright string in the first two months but they settle down a lot after. They are fairly easy to bow, but nothing like BelCantos or Flexocors. I have heard that the Helicores die very quickly and Spirocores last a lot longer.
 
#17
What about Spirocore Mittels? I may have a really good deal on those. What are the tradeoffs in going for a higher tension?

I mean, yes - low tension is nice for playability, but keep in mind that all I've ever had on a bass (according to my repair guy) are heavy gauge strings. Will I get a better tone / volume out of the mittels? How big is the difference in playability?
 
#20
Great - that's really good to hear!

What about my question about Mittels? Any input there?

phnord said:
What about Spirocore Mittels? I may have a really good deal on those. What are the tradeoffs in going for a higher tension?

I mean, yes - low tension is nice for playability, but keep in mind that all I've ever had on a bass (according to my repair guy) are heavy gauge strings. Will I get a better tone / volume out of the mittels? How big is the difference in playability?
Click to expand...
 

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