get those old-ish weichs! They are great strings that sound really good across different basses.
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Double Bass Help Me Decide Between...
- Thread starter phnord
- Start date
Now, you're up against the limits of what you can ask. No one can say how a given string will sound on your bass. All that can be given are subjective, relative judgements that apply most of the time to most basses.
Right, but I'm not asking how they will sound on my bass. I'm saying on a given instrument what kind of variations in sound and playability I could expect when comparing Medium Helicore Pizz. to Spirocore Weich strings.
Okay, the options on the table for me have changed a bit. I am now leaning towards Spirocore, but I have two options in front of me: either S42 Weich or S42 Mittel. The 3/4 scale 3885 Weich isn't an option for me at the moment.
Comparing the tensions when strung-up on a 3/4 scale bass, here's what I've got:
Seeing as the 3885's aren't available, which way do you think I should go - full scale Mittels or full scale Weichs? I'm leaning towards prioritizing a full sound over playability, but playability is definitely a big factor as well.
Comparing the tensions when strung-up on a 3/4 scale bass, here's what I've got:
Code:
G D A E
S42 Weich 56.9 61.1 63.1 65.3
3885 Weich 60.6 61.7 63.9 66.1
S42 Mittel 63.1 67.3 71.7 71.7Seeing as the 3885's aren't available, which way do you think I should go - full scale Mittels or full scale Weichs? I'm leaning towards prioritizing a full sound over playability, but playability is definitely a big factor as well.
Ha! Good one.
To the OP, just keep an eye on the classifieds and shoot for used set of Weichs, put em on and play (also, just FYI, some like to throw a Mittel E on there with the Weich A, D and G.. not that you have to do that right away if it's not cost effective). If you don't like 'em, sell 'em back to someone else on the classifieds. As others have already said, Spirocores in general last a very long time and have a strong tendency to just keep sounding better and better as they age, which has certainly been my experience with a set of Mittels (so if you snag a used set on the cheap you'll be that much closer, perhaps).
Also, FWIW I've had a Stark E on my bass for probably 2+ years at this point (maybe 3+? Oy, how time flies). Still going strong.
Mittels had a little more tension and a little deeper fundamental on my bass. I used them with a stark E. If I wasn't using guts and Garbos I'd probably go back to that setup. Old Spiro Mittels with a stark E. Great sound, no worries. Tune once a month. Don't even bother to wipe down the strings.
Yes, start with Spiro Weich and work on technique. After a year or so then you'll start getting an idea of where you want to take your playing from there.
And beware the string flu. It can strike without notice, and it's very expensive.
In my opinion, for starting out, having played both, a used set of Spiro Weich is a better deal than a new set of Helicore.
And beware the string flu. It can strike without notice, and it's very expensive.
In my opinion, for starting out, having played both, a used set of Spiro Weich is a better deal than a new set of Helicore.
I must dispute your chart. You're close, but not there. Tension is not linear. Tension varies as the square of the scale length. Here is the correct chart, from my previous thread "All The Different Spiros Sets," computed using the formula, as if all of the Spiros sets were strung on 106 cm at orchestra pitch:
Code:
G D A E Total
S42 4/4 Light 55.3 59.3 61.4 63.4 239.4
S42 4/4 Medium 61.4 65.5 69.6 69.6 266.1
S42 4/4 Heavy 73.7 73.7 75.8 77.8 301.0
4/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch 50.3 55.3 55.3 55.3 216.2
3/4 Solo @ 3/4 Orch 56.0 57.8 57.8 57.8 229.4
3885 3/4 Light 60.6 61.7 63.9 66.1 252.3
3885 3/4 Medium 67.2 68.3 70.5 72.8 278.8@iiipopes
If your chart is correct, the S42 Light strings are on average 3.23 lighter than the 3885 Lights that people here have recommended, whereas the S42 Mediums are 3.45 heavier than them - about half-way up to the 3885 Mittels
All of that said, which should I go with between the S42 4/4 Lights and the S42 4/4 Mittels to string on my 3/4 bass?
If your chart is correct, the S42 Light strings are on average 3.23 lighter than the 3885 Lights that people here have recommended, whereas the S42 Mediums are 3.45 heavier than them - about half-way up to the 3885 Mittels
All of that said, which should I go with between the S42 4/4 Lights and the S42 4/4 Mittels to string on my 3/4 bass?
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
@Hoffman & deVilliers
Thank you for your input - however, my question has changed to be a very specific one: a decision between the S42 4/4 Weich and S42 4/4 Mittel strings, as the 3885 3/4 Weich strings - which is what I believe you are recommending, seeing as I have a 3/4 bass - are not an option at the moment. Which direction do you think I should go in?
Thank you for your input - however, my question has changed to be a very specific one: a decision between the S42 4/4 Weich and S42 4/4 Mittel strings, as the 3885 3/4 Weich strings - which is what I believe you are recommending, seeing as I have a 3/4 bass - are not an option at the moment. Which direction do you think I should go in?
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Not Hoffman or deVilliers. I've been using EP weichs with an Olive G for the past year. Although the sound is near perfect for my bass, when the volume and energy kicks in I find myself pulling hard and it gets rough on my hands. That was the case last night and I ended up with a deep blister on my middle finger from digging in. With six gigs over the next seven days I put the old spiro weichs on. Although they have a million miles on them they really do sound and feel great. It's amazing how responsive they are and really how loud my bass is considering the tradeoff in playability. I suspect they are the 4/4 set because quite a bit of bare string goes around the gears. The E may be a 3/4.
Well, your persistent question deserves a response.
I've played a lot of different strings, different brands, steel, sythetic, gut. But I always have come back to Spirocores. A lot of folks will tell you that. I personally have two basses, one is gut strung, the other -- Spiros.
I don't know how your hands are doing after years of not playing, but Mittels would likely be a bit too much tension for you just now. Mittels are bigger and louder than Weichs and bow wonderfully (when broken in), but they do require more callouses than Weichs, especially when starting out. Ray Brown was said to have switched to Weichs in his later years, so no need to be embarrased.
In your situation, starting to play your bass again, and given that the 3885 set is not an option, I would recommend you get a set of Weichs in the 4/4 variety, S42W. They will give you an ease of playing, nice low tension, and an excellent sound, pizz and arco, brighter than most strings, but with fundamental. Like he said, you can mix in a Mittel E at some point to really grab deep notes with a power and volume that the Weich E does not have.
One other possibility (not to make things too complicated for you): I pretty consistently mix in a Belcanto G because I personally like that G string with Spiros, its pizz and arco sound is superior to the S42 Weich G, which always had a twangy sound for me (maybe the really low tension on that Weich G causes that twanginess when strung on a 106 cm mensur). I unfortunately never had a set of the Spiro 3885Ws, all my dealer ever had was the 4/4 S42 size.
So now, with that, over to Jake...
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
You asked this question:
"All of that said, which should I go with between the S42 4/4 Lights and the S42 4/4 Mittels to string on my 3/4 bass?"
Mr. DC Bass said "Consider the Spiro Weich".
Mr. Hoffman said "+1".
I said, "+2".
I don't see any room for confusion there, unless you've forgotten that 'Weich' is German for 'Weak' ie Light. But you call the Spiro 'Mediums' (Middles) 'Mittels' so...
To recap, all three of us recommend the SWeichs over the SMittels for your application.
"All of that said, which should I go with between the S42 4/4 Lights and the S42 4/4 Mittels to string on my 3/4 bass?"
Mr. DC Bass said "Consider the Spiro Weich".
Mr. Hoffman said "+1".
I said, "+2".
I don't see any room for confusion there, unless you've forgotten that 'Weich' is German for 'Weak' ie Light. But you call the Spiro 'Mediums' (Middles) 'Mittels' so...
To recap, all three of us recommend the SWeichs over the SMittels for your application.
You asked this question:
"All of that said, which should I go with between the S42 4/4 Lights and the S42 4/4 Mittels to string on my 3/4 bass?"
Mr. DC Bass said "Consider the Spiro Weich".
Mr. Hoffman said "+1".
I said, "+2".
I don't see any room for confusion there, unless you've forgotten that 'Weich' is German for 'Weak' ie Light. But you call the Spiro 'Mediums' (Middles) 'Mittels' so...
To recap, all three of us recommend the SWeichs over the SMittels for your application.
I also recommended the Spiro Weichs at the beginning of the thread...
@Jake
The confusion is as follows.
I assume that you were recommending the Spirocore Weich's that matched the scale of the bass that I'm using (3/4). Those would be the 3885 Spirocore Weich 3/4 set.
I was not able to get my hands on a used set of those, and cannot afford a new set.
The two options I had were either the S42 Spirocore 4/4 Weich set or the S42 Spirocore 4/4 Mittel set.
The 4/4 Weichs, when strung up on my 3/4 bass, would be an slightly lighter gauge then the 3/4 Weichs that you were recommending to me.
The 4/4 Mittels, when strung up on my 3/4 bass, would be a slightly heavy gauge then the 3/4 Weichs that you were recommending to me.
The question at the time was: if my only options were to go with Spirocores that were either slightly heavier or slightly lighter than the ones you were recommending, which direction should I go in?
---
In any case, the question is now null and void because while I was waiting for an answer to it the 4/4 Weich set was purchased by someone else. I now have the 4/4 Mittels on the way to me.
Again, strung up on my 3/4 bass those will be about halfway between the tension of the 3/4 Weich and 3/4 Mittel strings.
- Andy
The confusion is as follows.
I assume that you were recommending the Spirocore Weich's that matched the scale of the bass that I'm using (3/4). Those would be the 3885 Spirocore Weich 3/4 set.
I was not able to get my hands on a used set of those, and cannot afford a new set.
The two options I had were either the S42 Spirocore 4/4 Weich set or the S42 Spirocore 4/4 Mittel set.
The 4/4 Weichs, when strung up on my 3/4 bass, would be an slightly lighter gauge then the 3/4 Weichs that you were recommending to me.
The 4/4 Mittels, when strung up on my 3/4 bass, would be a slightly heavy gauge then the 3/4 Weichs that you were recommending to me.
The question at the time was: if my only options were to go with Spirocores that were either slightly heavier or slightly lighter than the ones you were recommending, which direction should I go in?
---
In any case, the question is now null and void because while I was waiting for an answer to it the 4/4 Weich set was purchased by someone else. I now have the 4/4 Mittels on the way to me.
Again, strung up on my 3/4 bass those will be about halfway between the tension of the 3/4 Weich and 3/4 Mittel strings.
- Andy
Most folks, including me, start with a set of Spiro S42 Weich to get used to playing and to work on technique. They are also more common on the used market. Play them for a year and see what you do and don't like about them. Then you'll know which direction to go from there.
Since I play in a couple of jazz/dance bands that do a lot of "standards," I eventually changed to Bel Canto GDA with a Spiro 3/4 3885.5 Weich E string, which I am very happy with.
At some point, you just have to make a decision and go with it. If the S42 Mitts suit you, great! If at some point you find them too heavy, then you can always sell them and go with the next step down, the 3885 Weich 3/4 set, which, unfortunately, only rarely shows up in the used section, so you may have to purchase new, as I did for my E string.
Since I play in a couple of jazz/dance bands that do a lot of "standards," I eventually changed to Bel Canto GDA with a Spiro 3/4 3885.5 Weich E string, which I am very happy with.
At some point, you just have to make a decision and go with it. If the S42 Mitts suit you, great! If at some point you find them too heavy, then you can always sell them and go with the next step down, the 3885 Weich 3/4 set, which, unfortunately, only rarely shows up in the used section, so you may have to purchase new, as I did for my E string.
