Help me find my spot in the mix

[rodak]

Keep in mind that with just the one 4x10 cab, you're not getting 300w out of that amp, but probably between 150 and 200. The amp is rated at 300w but for a 4ohm load and the cab is 8ohms. Adding a 2nd cab will squeeze the most power out of the amp and move a lot more air.

Having said that, I'm with those saying y'all might be playing too loud. Even with a 2nd cab, you may want to consider dialing back the overall volume.

 

[Kubicki Fan]

FYI.

OP is running 2 X 410.

... The question is whether or not 300w is enough for 2 4x10 cabs. ...
Thoughts and recommendations?
thanks so much for all the help!!!

Record a typical mix and do a group listen. If the band is happy with mud, they don't have what it takes to hang with you.

The band needs a leader who understands the importance of a proper mix, otherwise, the whole thing becomes a wank-fest rather than a musical performance.

It may be worth it to get feedback from a pro. Sometimes people are more tuned to authority than rational analysis.

 

[rodak]

FYI.
OP is running 2 X 410.

Maybe I misunderstood - I thought he had one 4x10 and was contemplating getting a 2nd. I was just pointing out that right now he's not even getting 300w into the one cab, so there would be a double benefit to adding a 2nd one.

 

[Kubicki Fan]

Maybe I misunderstood - I thought he had one 4x10 and was contemplating getting a 2nd. I was just pointing out that right now he's not even getting 300w into the one cab, so there would be a double benefit to adding a 2nd one.

I think all the pieces necessary are present, only, the band has to start thinking as an ensemble rather than competing parts.

 

[RhinoBass]

Here's my question:
How do you know where you are sitting in the mix if you are standing on the stage? The sound on stage is nothing like the sound 3 feet in front of the stage. The sound 15 feet from the stage is nothing like the sound 3 feet in front of the stage. The sound 35 feet from the stage is nothing like the sound 15 feet from the stage. All of those factors change drastically from room to room (and in the same room when it fills up with people). Bass carries a whole lot further than the higher registers and (as has been said 1,000 times in this and other forums) a great sound when the bass is soloed might sound like a big pile of elephant $hit when blended with the other voices.

Here's what we try to do when we don't have a soundman: Find a friend, a fellow musician, who's ears you trust. Ask them to come to your gig (buy them a few beers). Ask them to walk around the room as you play and to give you some pointers as to the sound (it's ususally, "have the lead guitarist turn it down 20-25%"). Have them do it throughout the night and adjust according to taste.

Your gear is fine. Play the $hit out of it.

 

[SteC]

Maybe ask guitarists to cut some lows/low mids and see if that does anything? Some guitarists like a really bassy sound that sounds great by itself but is not necessary in the full mix and makes it impossible to hear yourself.

 

[micguy]

When a 300 watt bass amp "isn't enough", the situation usually isn't that complex. One or both of the following things are almost certainly true:

1) You have a guitarist (or two) who plays too loud, in part because his speakers don't aim at his ears - they aim at the backs of his knees. But you, being further away, are in the beam, and it's way too loud at your position. So, you turn up, but....

2) Your amp is similarly mis-pointed - other people may be in the beam of your speakers, but you aren't. You can't hear yourself because you're not hearing your rig at full level - it's loud enough, just not at your ears. And you're being drowned out by the guitars - they have a natural "advantage", in that their instruments don't need as much power to be deafening, and you're caught in their crosshairs. You need to get out of this silly situation.

It's time to get creative - figure out what you need to do to point your amps at your own ears, not at each others' ears. If your guitarist(s) refuses to go along, you can either quit the band, or decide to stay and go deaf.

The last thing you need is a louder rig - that's one more step towards insanity; it will just up the volume war, and it will make you deaf faster.

 

[Old Fart]

In the late 1970s when disco was popular, I played in a 9-piece funk band. Undulating oceans of drunken young fraternity and sorority men and women. I had the time of my life!

Your place in the mix is just above the kick drum and below everything else. About 100 to 600 Hz. That space is all your own, if you claim it. Get rid of the boomy deep lows. They only get boomier indoors and you will not win the fight with the kick drum. Get rid of that sparkle that competes with everything but the kick drum (guitars, keys, drum skins, cymbals, etc.). This secret magic strategy is what the Fender Precision was made to do. I can pretty much tell a bass player what his mix struggles will be by looking at where the main pickup is located.

 

[Old Fart]

I see some other excellent observations and suggestions here as well. I think you are getting your question answered nicely here.

 

[newwavefrank]

FYI.

OP is running 2 X 410.


It may be worth it to get feedback from a pro. Sometimes people are more tuned to authority than rational analysis.

He said he has one cab, and asked IF he gets a second one, would his current head be enough to power them both

 

[Bobbadfinger]

I always wanted an EB/SG bass. Until I played one.
Andy Fraser is a giant - no questions about it - but there's a lot of space in Free.
I'd "downgrade" to the Squier P. Try it on the next gig, it can't get any cheaper than that.

 

[Marko 1]

I'd "downgrade" to the Squier P. Try it on the next gig, it can't get any cheaper than that.

I'd lose the 1/4 pounders, too...

and go with Rounds, as getting those low fundamentals at the expense of harmonics/overtones isn't helping. imo.

 

[Five or Six]

Why you guys so loud?

You beat me to it! You have plenty of amp! Just too much stage noise.

 

[Marko 1]

"Hey guys, like I was on TalkBass forum asking for advice on how to be better heard, maybe add another 4x10 cab, and some old farts said we should like, all turn down. Being like, totally wise beyond my years, I'm convinced! So, what do y'all say?"

"Oh... well if like, some old farts on your TalkBass forum said we should all turn down, I think we should, like, do that right now... cool!"

"OKAY I'M IN!"

"AWESOME DUDES!"

"YEAH, WE'RE LIKE, ROCKIN' RESPONSIBLY NOW!!!"

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

Lots of good advice.

I would go back to the P bass, as they seem to be very good at insisting on being heard.
Also, get the second cab.
It will double the speaker area, halve the impedance and raise the top speaker to more ear level.
300 watts and eight 10s may still not seem like enough, I assure you there are many SVT owners that feel it is enough.
If not in this context then somewhere, sometime you will need it.

Maybe you or someone in the band can get a wireless unit and everyone can take turns using it to step out front and hear for themselves what is going on.
It will be an eye (or ear) opener.
Then maybe a good discussion about what you hear will lead to some changes.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I’m a college student from Athens, Ga. I play in a classic rock band in a college town with ~80 bars and a large Greek life scene. We play bars, frat houses, date nights, events, etc. 4 piece band, lead guitarist on a 3 pick- up les Paul, singer who plays rhythm guitar with a strat, drummer, and me, I recently upgraded from a squire p bass with SD quarter pound pickups to a Gibson SG standard bass. I play it through an Acoustic B300H 300W head to an Acoustic B410C cab.

I don’t think my set up is nearly loud enough and I’m wondering what may be the most cost effective option to fix that. I live with the lead guitarist and we are both obsessed with tone. It’s very hard to chase a clear punchy tone when you have to run your master on 9 with gain just to hear yourself. I want to be able to actually use my eq and pickups to get some fuzz or get some drive or play clean tones.
My thoughts are maybe I could get another cab? I know the one I have has the parallel out so I could run the same head and just get another of the cab I already have. It would certainly be cost effective. The question is whether or not 300w is enough for 2 4x10 cabs. I’ve gotten differing opinions in the past. I welcome all input. I just don’t want to be stuck sending my master volume to the moon just to find my place in the mix. I could also look at other heads? I love ampeg heads but they get pretty pricey.
Thoughts and recommendations?
thanks so much for all the help!!!

I'm starting to sound like a broken record on this subject. Have you tried adjusting your amp EQ, like less bass and more low mids?

Anyway, you cab is rated at 400 watts. Depending on what your ohm rating is, the output of your amp is 300 watts at 4 ohm, and a good bit less less if the cab is 8 ohm. I could find the exact amount of wattage on an 8 ohm load in the owners manual, but I'm sure somebody has that answer.

Nosing around, I noticed that BH410c cabs run for about $300, probably a good deal cheaper than buying another amp . If the cab you have is an 8 ohm cab, this is an option. Yeah, you have a second cab to deal with, but with the full 300 watts out of your head into 8 10" speakers, you should be able to hear yourself.

 

[6-3-2]

When a 300 watt bass amp "isn't enough", the situation usually isn't that complex. One or both of the following things are almost certainly true:

1) You have a guitarist (or two) who plays too loud, in part because his speakers don't aim at his ears - they aim at the backs of his knees. But you, being further away, are in the beam, and it's way too loud at your position. So, you turn up, but....

2) Your amp is similarly mis-pointed - other people may be in the beam of your speakers, but you aren't. You can't hear yourself because you're not hearing your rig at full level - it's loud enough, just not at your ears. And you're being drowned out by the guitars - they have a natural "advantage", in that their instruments don't need as much power to be deafening, and you're caught in their crosshairs. You need to get out of this silly situation.

It's time to get creative - figure out what you need to do to point your amps at your own ears, not at each others' ears. If your guitarist(s) refuses to go along, you can either quit the band, or decide to stay and go deaf.

The last thing you need is a louder rig - that's one more step towards insanity; it will just up the volume war, and it will make you deaf faster.

I second all of this. Volume wars will give you tinnitus, and you do not want constant ringing in your ears for the rest of your life. The band needs to get together and position their amps so they're easy to hear at reasonable volumes. That will also contribute to a good mix, since nobody will be drowning out anyone else.

Bass amps are particularly tricky with placement, since the lower the frequency, the longer the sound waves. So, often the further way you are, the better you hear the amp. On top of that bass sounds fuller near a wall or in a corner than out in the open. Those are things top consider when setting up somewhere. If you can't hear your bass at all, sometimes moving your rig a bit further back will help a lot. I agree with the others as well about cutting ultra low frequencies. They feel awesome, but they won't help you get heard.

 

[MegaSwing]

Bump the mids into the cab’s sweet spot. That's where the magic is. Over-emphasizing the lowest frequencies robs you of your dynamics and your headroom, and you’ll never have enough power for them, because bass cabinets aren’t made to be used that way.

 

[AceOfBassFace]

Surprised nobody has recommended a high pass filter yet - one of those would go a long way to solve OP's problem with mud and not enough volume/clarity.

 

[Grinderman]

You've probably got the wrong bass for "clear and punchy". You'd have been better off keeping the Squire w/SD pups, IMHO.

I feel the need to turn the volume up on this advice because I remember when I was young I and a lot of other people I knew who were about my age held the mistaken belief that hotter pickups = better.