Help me to choose my envelope filter

[kevteop]

Earlier I said that a Meatball clone was pretty expensive if you just want one sound, but now I've had the benefit of a lengthy session with my pedal board and a nice bottle of Rioja reserva, I can't see any reason for buying any other filter.

Yes I know I bought a BYOC 440 clone just now, but that's because my Meatwad needs to go back to Nebraska for a quick mod and I'm trying to cover all the things it does while it's away. And failing. Despite having four other filters to play with.

 

[fivestringgecko]

I've got a Meatwad (another Meatball clone) and it doesn't have any issues with doing subtle (and a whole pile of other useful noises), so I imagine the Grinder will be able to do it too.

But that is a lot of money if you only want the one sound. I just had a BYOC 440 clone turn up in the mail today and I think you were right on the money when you were discussing that circuit - it's very subtle, and a hell of a lot cheaper than a Meatball clone. I'd say get the Boomstick box or a 440 filter kit from BYOC.

The whole pile of other stuff is why I'm thinking about the Grinder. I want the one (subtle) sound I'm looking for, but having access to so many other filter sounds is definitely appealing.

I tried the BYOC filter, the newer one with the fixed wah feature. I got it finished and I think I really like the sound, but apparently my soldering skills weren't quite up to snuff despite being very careful and going slow... the range and level pots didn't do anything. lol So, I gave it to my sound guy at church to have him check it out (he basically builds his own electrical components) ... but he's had it for four months now.

Maybe I just answered my own question, maybe the Boomstick is the way to go for me but jeez... all those bells and whistles on the Grinder! lol

5sg.

 

[jezzamac]

Okay, I GOTTA have that shirt. Send me a link...?

Can you just post the link?

 

[kevteop]

The whole pile of other stuff is why I'm thinking about the Grinder. I want the one (subtle) sound I'm looking for, but having access to so many other filter sounds is definitely appealing.

Honestly I've only ever been completely satisfied by two of the pedals I've owned; the EHX Bass Micro Synth and the Robot Factory Meatwad. Both are excellent. The BMS obviously is peerless, it's unique, but the Meatwad's got competition in the form of other Meatball clones.

The Grinder looks like very good value to be honest, because it's got the extra two expression pedal inputs (one to control decay, which might be kinda useful or might not, and one to control the wet/dry blend) whereas the Meatwad only has expression control over the cut-off frequency. But one benefit you'd get from the Meatwad is having Mario build it for you, because he's really open to bespoke requests.

One mod I asked for - that is missing from every other loop-equipped filter I've seen - is particularly valuable: Having the ability to use the pedals that are in the filter's loop when the filter itself is switched off. Probably if you asked for that mod the price would go up to be around the same as the Grinder, but it's a great feature to have. More valuable IMHO than expression control over the decay pot.

If you use filters much definitely go ahead and get yourself a Meatball clone, you won't regret it. I thought that even with all those options I'd end up finding one generic-sounding envelope filter sound and stick with it, but nah, there are a bunch of settings I use, and they all sound great.

 

[mwalle1]

Go MOOG hell with the size they are slick. I like EHX for envelope best of all. Q tron or BassBalls for me.

 

[kevteop]

Go MOOG hell with the size they are slick. I like EHX for envelope best of all. Q tron or BassBalls for me.

I recommend the Q-Tron a lot, I think it sounds great in the "Up" position, but the down sweep is weird as hell. Bassballs is a totally unique effect and doesn't belong in a discussion of envelope filters IMO. I do have one on my board and I like the effect a lot, it's just not a normal filter.

As for the Moog: I thought it was great as a static filter but it doesn't have enough features as an evelope-following filter to justify the price, certainly not compared to the Meatball. And I don't like the sound of the bypass. Shame.

 

[redangel]

I recommend the Q-Tron a lot, I think it sounds great in the "Up" position, but the down sweep is weird as hell. Bassballs is a totally unique effect and doesn't belong in a discussion of envelope filters IMO. I do have one on my board and I like the effect a lot, it's just not a normal filter.

As for the Moog: I thought it was great as a static filter but it doesn't have enough features as an evelope-following filter to justify the price, certainly not compared to the Meatball. And I don't like the sound of the bypass. Shame.

I have tried Q-Tron out, but its not really my taste.
And about the Moog, you said that it does not have enough features? What do you think it should have? I am a noob of envelope filters... I don't really know about the others...


Errr.. I've got a stupid question.
As the envelope filter do up and down sweep.
So is the Wah pedal do up and down sweep too?

 

[fivestringgecko]

My G.A.S. won out and I just ordered a Barge Concepts MB-1 Grinder!

I'll post clips and a review as soon as I get some time with it.

5sg.

 

[kevteop]

And about the Moog, you said that it does not have enough features? What do you think it should have?

Well it doesn't have its own effect loop, or any way of inputting a clean signal to use for envelope purposes, and it's just got a "smooth / fast" switch for the filter sweep speed, whereas the Meatball's got attack and decay knobs. I get the feeling they weren't really designing an envelope filter, they just added basic envelope-following capability as a bonus. As far as I can tell, the envelope can't do a down-sweep either - even mid-priced envelope filters will do this. And of course it's not true bypass; the bypass on the Moog does colour your tone quite noticeably.

As the envelope filter do up and down sweep.
So is the Wah pedal do up and down sweep too?

Are you asking if the expression pedal sweep changes direction when the filter is set to a down sweep? On the Meatwad (and other Meatball clones no doubt) the expression pedal still works in the same direction.

 

[Marill]

anyone has experience with the EBS Bassiq? how does that compare to the rest of the envelope filters here?

 

[Marill]

I've never used a Bottom Feeder but I did ask an owner once if it did this, and he said it did. So maybe it's all DOD (and derived) circuits that do it. I haven't heard this effect from any other filter.

if i understood what you've described, i think i hear it on the EHX Bassballs.

it's like the soft downward sweep you described.

 

[redangel]

Are you asking if the expression pedal sweep changes direction when the filter is set to a down sweep? On the Meatwad (and other Meatball clones no doubt) the expression pedal still works in the same direction.

Nono, I mean the true Wah Pedal, such as Dunlop 105Q.
What does the Wah do? is the Wah doing down sweep or up sweep or both?


And I want to ask about the Meatball, is it a subtle sound thing? or wet like AF-9?

 

[redangel]

anyone has experience with the EBS Bassiq? how does that compare to the rest of the envelope filters here?

EBS BassIQ seems not really "Deep" enough...

 

[T.O.Bass]

Ok, for starters, I don't know much about effects, so don't cut me up if this is a daft question.

I've been looking into getting the Moog LPF but many people complain that it's not true bypass and colors your clean tone.

So why wouldn't it be made as true bypass? On a more general level, why would ANYONE manufacture ANY pedal that's not true bypass? What's the point? Does it increase manufacturing costs? Or do some people just deem it not necessary? What's the deal here???

 

[thehamilton]

Mutron, for sure

 

[kevteop]

Nono, I mean the true Wah Pedal, such as Dunlop 105Q.
What does the Wah do? is the Wah doing down sweep or up sweep or both?

Your foot controls it, so it can do either. I should point out that all the fancy envelope filters have expression pedal inputs, so they can be used as wah-wah pedals. And often they have more available adjustments to the filter sweep than a wah pedal does (although some wah pedals have knobs and switches for customising the sweep range and so on).

And I want to ask about the Meatball, is it a subtle sound thing? or wet like AF-9?

To me a "wet" sound is high resonance, causing that swimmy mess of harmonics. The Meatball has a resonance knob on it, so you can set it however you like. You can have it subtle and dubby or sickly sweet.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Ok, for starters, I don't know much about effects, so don't cut me up if this is a daft question.

I've been looking into getting the Moog LPF but many people complain that it's not true bypass and colors your clean tone.

So why wouldn't it be made as true bypass? On a more general level, why would ANYONE manufacture ANY pedal that's not true bypass? What's the point? Does it increase manufacturing costs? Or do some people just deem it not necessary? What's the deal here???

There's nothing at all wrong with a buffered bypass if it is a quality buffer- a buffer can in fact aid in your signal if you're using a passive instrument. True bypass can in fact have its own list of problems, including the possibility of random loud pops.

 

[T.O.Bass]

There's nothing at all wrong with a buffered bypass if it is a quality buffer- a buffer can in fact aid in your signal if you're using a passive instrument. True bypass can in fact have its own list of problems, including the possibility of random loud pops.

So then the Moog LPF has a poor quality buffer? I only use active, if that makes a difference.

And what do you mean by loud pops?

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

So then the Moog LPF has a poor quality buffer? I only use active, if that makes a difference.

And what do you mean by loud pops?

I've never used the Moog, so I have no idea how good the buffer is. Moog is generally great quality stuff, but you're better off asking those with experience. A pop from a true bypass box is like a very loud snap that comes out of your speaker. They can occur for a number of reasons, and they can be mostly dealt with with good resistors (IIRC), but nearly any true bypass switch has the possibility of occassionally giving out one of those loud pops.

 

[kevteop]

I've never used the Moog, so I have no idea how good the buffer is.

I've only tried the MF-101 but AFAIK all the Moogerfoogers do the same thing: Apparently it's because the "drive" control remains in the audio path when the effect is bypassed, so you get that colour all the time.

It's not that it sounds bad as-such, it's just a bit frustrating that you can't have a bit of drive with the effect engaged and none of it when it's bypassed. So no, it's not so much a poor quality tone-suck issue, more a strange design decision.