Help me understand "Tainted Love"

[JimmyM]

And sometimes it's better for it. : D

I would suggest that someone who doesn't know theory would write the exact same songs they would if they did. Sure, it's impossible to prove, but as far as I'm concerned, either you've got it or you don't.

 

[iain westland]

There's a risk that those whom are theoretically advanced wouldn't make the same happy accidents others would.....?

 

[mrbell321]

There's a risk that those whom are theoretically advanced wouldn't make the same happy accidents others would.....?

Perhaps but it's more likely they would do the same thing on purpose... And with fewer mistakes in between.

 

[JimmyM]

There's a risk that those whom are theoretically advanced wouldn't make the same happy accidents others would.....?

Maybe, and there is merit to that argument. But theory exists to explain music, not the other way around, so I still have my doubts.

 

[ThePresident777]

And sometimes it's better for it. : D

And sometimes they get sued. Lol, sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

P.S. If any song starts causing too much unnecessary thinking instead of enjoying it, I don't play that song.

You want a catchy tune, check this simple song from Brian Adams' new album, 'GET UP'.
The song is called, You Belong To Me.
It's simple and catchy, and easy to play, and the audience would love it IMHO.

 

[stringtapper]

Wait… what?

 

[Lownote38]

This hits the nail on the head. "Classical" theory and "Jazz" theory aren't two separate theories, just different points of view regarding the same "science". In fact, until things start to get very complex, they are virtually indistinguishable. Whichever you choose to practise, you are learning the terminology for the effects created when certain notes and harmonies interact, which is incredibly important for replicating the effects in your own songwriting. Analyse, understand, utilise.

The OP asked an intelligent question, looking to acquire some knowledge about the how and why of a particular bit of songwriting, and most of the replies have explained, in whole or in part, what's going on; the raised third, the resolution, the musical/emotional effect it has etc etc. This is great. But it's even better if you explain why it works too, and what it's called. This way you can express your ideas with other musicians efficiently and effectively. If you decide you want to create a certain emotion in your writing, great, you know exactly how to do so. No guesswork involved. The amount of time saved is well worth the effort of learning these things. A little knowledge can go a long way.



Really it doesn't matter what terms you use though. it is what it is. Mozart or Soft Cell, the usage and effect is identical. And in this case it took only two words to explain the progression: picardy third (classical) / parallel major (jazz). If you take the time to learn the theory, it doesn't make things more complicated, rather it becomes so much simpler. What initially seems like witchcraft becomes as clear as day. I really can't recommend enough, to every and any musician of any ability level, learning some theory, jazz, classical, or better yet both. It's one of the best decisions I have ever made as a musician, and will affect, enhance, and enrich every part of your playing, songwriting, and enjoyment of music.

You're assuming I don't know theory. I have a music degree.

 

[Lownote38]

One of the problems is trying to think about a pop song in terms of the key in which it is written. Most pop songs, especially these soul type songs are based on 7th chords.
You'll find blues jazz and soul songs with all 7th chords.
Think how many 12 bar, 3 chord songs with a I-IV-V progression you can play.
It is impossible to have 3 major chords with flat 7ths in one key.
We may talk about "this blues in E", but if we use E7, A7 B7, then you are not actually in E.

The whole art of blues soloing using the minor pentatonic over a major chord progression should alert you to the fact that major/minor and key nomenclature is merely a rough guide, not a watertight rule.

If it sounds good....

This is what I've been trying to say all along. Thank you!

 

[20db pad]

No Picardy Third in "Tainted" - that's reserved for the end of a piece.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

You're assuming I don't know theory. I have a music degree.

What do you thing about The Beatles "I am the Walrus" harmony?

 

[Lownote38]

What do you thing about The Beatles "I am the Walrus" harmony?

Very 20th century. Brilliant things going on in this one. There's an element of atonality due to George Martin's orchestral scoring and the way it goes against what the actual Beatles are playing. Lennon's keys are especially at odds. Listen to the Anthology 2 version without the orchestration to hear his electric piano part more isolated. This is my favorite Beatles song due to the common tone Lennon keeps playing in every chord of the intro. It adds dissonance. Without an instrument on me, I can't tell you exactly what chords those end up being, but it grabs my ear every time.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Very 20th century. Brilliant things going on in this one. There's an element of atonality due to George Martin's orchestral scoring and the way it goes against what the actual Beatles are playing. Lennon's keys are especially at odds. Listen to the Anthology 2 version without the orchestration to hear his electric piano part more isolated. This is my favorite Beatles song due to the common tone Lennon keeps playing in every chord of the intro. It adds dissonance. Without an instrument on me, I can't tell you exactly what chords those end up being, but it grabs my ear every time.

It was hailed as "the ultimate testament to the power of borrowed chords in rock music".
Here are some chords from that song:

 

[20db pad]

Is a secondary dominant chord a borrowed chord?

Do this with someone else, please.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I've asked my question about the borrowed chords and secondary (applied) dominant chords for the following reason:

Let's take a simple chord progression.
C - F - Fm - C/G7.
We have one borrowed chord - F minor. And that borrowed Fm chord does not change the function of the chord (F) it's replacing - both are Subdominant chords.

"An applied Dominant/secondary dominant is a chord that is the V chord of another chord.
Secondary or applied dominants are sometimes called "tonicisations" because for a very short time they make another chord sound like it is the tonic." With secondary dominants we have a temporary modulation/tonicisation.

Now, let's look at a simple example with a secondary dominant chord:
C - F - A7 - D minor, where A7 is V of II/secondary dominant.
In this case, A7 is tonicizing the D minor chord (the pseudo-tonic) and is the V chord/dominant chord of Dm; therefore, A7 chord is not a Borrowed VI chord with the Submediant function.

 

[mrbell321]

So is this a question of categorization? Are you asking for secondary dominant chords fall under the "category of things we call borrowed chords"?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

So is this a question of categorization? Are you asking for secondary dominant chords fall under the "category of things we call borrowed chords"?

Yes, technically secondary dominant chords are not Borrowed chords. Borrowed chords change the chord's quality but not its function.

 

[Captain Sunshin]

No Picardy Third in "Tainted" - that's reserved for the end of a piece.

No it's not. It can be used at the end of any musical section, or any perfect or plagal cadence in a minor key. It's definitely most common at the end of a piece or movement, though. Haydn and Beethoven often used the Picardy Third as a segue into new sections in the parallel major in their string quartets. It sounds pretty fantastic, IMO.

You're assuming I don't know theory. I have a music degree.

Okay

 

[Whousedtoplay]

It can be used at the end of any musical section, or any perfect or plagal cadence in a minor key. It's definitely most common at the end of a piece or movement, though. Haydn and Beethoven often used the Picardy Third as a segue into new sections in the parallel major in their string quartets. It sounds pretty fantastic, IMO.

"The Picardy third (Fr. tierce de Picardie) is the cadential appearance of a tonic major chord in a minor key, normally at the end of a piece or major section but sometimes also merely at the end of a phrase."
In our "Tainted Love" case, that A major chord is at the beginning of a phrase/piece.

 

[Captain Sunshin]

"The Picardy third (Fr. tierce de Picardie) is the cadential appearance of a tonic major chord in a minor key, normally at the end of a piece or major section but sometimes also merely at the end of a phrase."
In our "Tainted Love" case, that A major chord is at the beginning of a phrase/piece.

Invalid Link Removed

It looks like the end of each verse, and the end of the song to me...

EDIT: Okay, I just worked out the guitar & bass parts. It seems the OP and the posted chord chart are incorrect - the Amaj doesn't come in until the chorus, in which case it's simply a parallel major (I can't help but feel that this makes this entire thread somewhat redundant).
I stand by my analysis for the posted chords and how OP and his band is covering it, but otherwise it's not pertinent to how the song is performed by Imelda May.

I guess the real lesson here is never trust chord charts you find online.

EDIT #2:

This version does match the chord chart, so if you play it this way, ignore the above edit.