Help on Learning a Chord Progression by Ear (Jazz)?

[Matthew_84]

Just wondering, do you (Matthew) know anything about chord functions? This, to me, would be the first thing to look at. I’d also recommend you get a copy of Mark Levine’s Jazz Theory book if you don’t already have it.

By chord functions, do you mean like how the IV is the subdominant? If yes, then no, lol. I’ve never really learned that.

I do have Levine’s book and just cracked it open the other day, but have a ways to go with it! It’s definitely something I need to spend more time with though (I just hate sacrificing playing time with reading time LOL)

 

[Malcolm35]

..... So again, for the cheap seats - 32 bar AABA DOES NOT EQUAL I Got Rhythm changes.

Then its back to fake chord for me.

 

[bass12]

By chord functions, do you mean like how the IV is the subdominant? If yes, then no, lol. I’ve never really learned that.

I do have Levine’s book and just cracked it open the other day, but have a ways to go with it! It’s definitely something I need to spend more time with though (I just hate sacrificing playing time with reading time LOL)

The first thing I think you should do is look at harmonizing the major scale. This is the jumping off point for understanding functional harmony.

 

[Matthew_84]

The first thing I think you should do is look at harmonizing the major scale. This is the jumping off point for understanding functional harmony.

Yeah, I just opened it up and looked at the table of contents and didn’t realize it gave examples of chord progressions and all kinds of things.

I (for some reason) thought this book would be filled with a lot more things like how to read music and more basic theory stuff, not so much about the functions of chords, as well as so many things geared towards jazz specifically. I definitely need to work through this sooner than I thought!

Thank you!

 

[bass12]

Yeah, I just opened it up and looked at the table of contents and didn’t realize it gave examples of chord progressions and all kinds of things.

I (for some reason) thought this book would be filled with a lot more things like how to read music and more basic theory stuff, not so much about the functions of chords, as well as so many things geared towards jazz specifically. I definitely need to work through this sooner than I thought!

Thank you!

Do you have the iReal Pro app? It could be very helpful to you...

 

[Matthew_84]

Do you have the iReal Pro app? It could be very helpful to you...

I have that as well lol. I'm definitely going to use it to create backing tracks to different progressions and examples and things.

And just to mention it (and relate it to my original post), I did try to play along to Alone Together on it to see if I could find out the changes that way, but it felt tougher to me without a melody. That said, once my ear gets better at distinguishing progressions and chord types (Maj, min, dim, etc) I’m sure it’ll become easier as well.

 

[bass12]

I have that as well lol. I'm definitely going to use it to create backing tracks to different progressions and examples and things.

And just to mention it (and relate it to my original post), I did try to play along to Alone Together on it to see if I could find out the changes that way, but it felt tougher to me without a melody. That said, once my ear gets better at distinguishing progressions and chord types (Maj, min, dim, etc) I’m sure it’ll become easier as well.

Yes, spend some time with chords. Play them on a keyboard if you can and also learn to play them on bass. Once you learn about some basic progressions typically found in jazz, passing chords and tritone substitutions you will much more quickly be able to decipher jazz standards.

 

[Cricket55]

Hello -

Just wanted to add an idea or two to this thread. To start, Ed Fuqua's most excellent post on REALLY learning a tune was mentioned but not, as far as I saw, linked... so I will add that. If you haven't read this, you should. Now. Then re-read his most excellent response here.

With that said, Ed's approach, which I have encountered from other brilliant teachers as well, is super thorough... an awesome thing for when you are feeling disciplined. If you truly get into this music, you will likely spend the rest of your life working on certain tunes. There is always more to learn.

I read almost every post in this thread, and there is at least something to most of them worth considering. In general, I agree with those who suggest you just get a chart for the tune. Especially if you are new to jazz, why deprive yourself of all the resources that are out there today? A detailed study of a few standards will reap many benefits later on, as you familiarize yourself with the language of "inside jazz." With a few basics under your belt, learning by ear will be much easier later.

One idea that I think is missing here, and might be helpful for perspective, is a look at what is actually going on, harmonically speaking, on a tune like this. Alone Together, as with so many other standards, was a show tune that long outlasted the musical it came from. These were basically well-known pop tunes of the day, and were usually played very straight, as in the example Ed linked, by Jo Stafford. That version is worth some repeated listening, not only to understand the melody, but to hear the basic underlying harmonic movement, which is actually very simple. It is easy to get overwhelmed by jazz progressions with elaborations, substitutions, and extensions if you don't understand where these came from and what purpose they serve. The main harmonic movement here is not a complex one. You are simply moving between I and V. Consider the first 8 bars of the tune:

(I) Alone... (V) together... (I) beyond the (V) crowd... (I) above the (V) world... (IV) we're not too proud...

Really, that's it. And if you play the tune very straight, and just play those basic chords, it will work. So, what the jazz cats did was, they took these pop tunes that everyone knew and "jazzed them up," adding more movement to the progressions and more swing and syncopation to the rhythm etc. So the common thing to do was to take a simple movement like (I) //// (V) //// and play (I)//// (ii)// (V)// or (I)// (vi)// (ii)// (V)//
instead. This generates more movement in the progression but all it really amounts to is taking a different path to the V chord.

This is important to understand because it clarifies the purpose of the ii-Vs in common jazz progressions. It also might clarify why rhythm changes are so important to learn. Rhythm changes would have been part of the common vocabulary of the original jazz cats, who then applied those ideas to show tunes to play them in the new style. So one of the keys to playing jazz is learning how to navigate ii-V cadences, but I think understanding where these came from and what they do can make it easier to get a handle on a standard. Many times you will find, when you strip the progression down to basics, you are just moving between I and V, possibly with a change or two in key centers, but even then... I and V.

Hopefully this makes some sense? To my way of thinking, stripping the progression down to the simplest, most basic movement makes things much more clear. YMMV.

Peace,

Cricket

 

[Cricket55]

I thought I would add an example, just to demonstrate. To my way of thinking, there are only 8 chords necessary to play Alone Together. Everything else is embellishment.:

(D-) Alone... (A7) together... (D-) beyond the (A7) crowd... (D-) above the (A7) world (G-) we're not too proud...
to (A-) cling... (C7) together, we're (F) strong as long as (A7) we're (Dmaj7) together. (A7)

(D-) Alone... (A7) together... (D-) the blinding (A7) rain... (D-) the starless (A7) night (G-) were not in vain...
for (A-) we're... (C7) together, and (F) what is there to (A7) fear (Dmaj7) together?

Our (A-) love (D7) is as deep as the (G-) sea.
Our love (C7) is as deep as a (F) love can be. (A7)

And (D-) we... can (A7) weather (D-) the great (A7) unknown (D-) if we're (A7) alone (D-) together.

 

[Matthew_84]

Hello -

Just wanted to add an idea or two to this thread. To start, Ed Fuqua's most excellent post on REALLY learning a tune was mentioned but not, as far as I saw, linked... so I will add that. If you haven't read this, you should. Now. Then re-read his most excellent response here.

With that said, Ed's approach, which I have encountered from other brilliant teachers as well, is super thorough... an awesome thing for when you are feeling disciplined. If you truly get into this music, you will likely spend the rest of your life working on certain tunes. There is always more to learn.

I read almost every post in this thread, and there is at least something to most of them worth considering. In general, I agree with those who suggest you just get a chart for the tune. Especially if you are new to jazz, why deprive yourself of all the resources that are out there today? A detailed study of a few standards will reap many benefits later on, as you familiarize yourself with the language of "inside jazz." With a few basics under your belt, learning by ear will be much easier later.

One idea that I think is missing here, and might be helpful for perspective, is a look at what is actually going on, harmonically speaking, on a tune like this. Alone Together, as with so many other standards, was a show tune that long outlasted the musical it came from. These were basically well-known pop tunes of the day, and were usually played very straight, as in the example Ed linked, by Jo Stafford. That version is worth some repeated listening, not only to understand the melody, but to hear the basic underlying harmonic movement, which is actually very simple. It is easy to get overwhelmed by jazz progressions with elaborations, substitutions, and extensions if you don't understand where these came from and what purpose they serve. The main harmonic movement here is not a complex one. You are simply moving between I and V. Consider the first 8 bars of the tune:

(I) Alone... (V) together... (I) beyond the (V) crowd... (I) above the (V) world... (IV) we're not too proud...

Really, that's it. And if you play the tune very straight, and just play those basic chords, it will work. So, what the jazz cats did was, they took these pop tunes that everyone knew and "jazzed them up," adding more movement to the progressions and more swing and syncopation to the rhythm etc. So the common thing to do was to take a simple movement like (I) //// (V) //// and play (I)//// (ii)// (V)// or (I)// (vi)// (ii)// (V)//
instead. This generates more movement in the progression but all it really amounts to is taking a different path to the V chord.

This is important to understand because it clarifies the purpose of the ii-Vs in common jazz progressions. It also might clarify why rhythm changes are so important to learn. Rhythm changes would have been part of the common vocabulary of the original jazz cats, who then applied those ideas to show tunes to play them in the new style. So one of the keys to playing jazz is learning how to navigate ii-V cadences, but I think understanding where these came from and what they do can make it easier to get a handle on a standard. Many times you will find, when you strip the progression down to basics, you are just moving between I and V, possibly with a change or two in key centers, but even then... I and V.

Hopefully this makes some sense? To my way of thinking, stripping the progression down to the simplest, most basic movement makes things much more clear. YMMV.

Peace,

Cricket

This is a great post and I appreciate it!

I have changed course a bit. I’m going to work my way through Mark Levine’s Jazz Theory Book (playing and singing along to the examples, as well as analyzing them) to really understand what’s going on, and getting the sounds and progression engrained in me. I will also make backing tracks for the various progressions listed (there are sections dedicated to song forms and progressions), and will treat them the same. This will help me to hear the changes, as well as understand how the chords work.

FWIW, I’m also supplementing this with Ray Brown’s method book (filled with scale and interval exercises - good for the fingers and ears) as well as Ed’s Walking Bassics.

When I get back to trying to learn this piece, I will work off the version Ed posted, and then refer back to your post to see what the chords are, and how they evolved into the jazz version (I did skim past that part in your post for now, just because I do want to try and pick it out by ear after some of this other work I’m doing). I’ll then start learning some of the other versions of the tune I like, understanding the various embellishments there are.

I may also use chord sheets for the next couple tunes I learn as well, if I get stuck anyway. I need to use my ear as much as I can, so I can eventually get to the point where I don’t need anything else.

Thank again!

edit: and thanks for your second post to add more detail! That is really appreciated! I will certainly refer to those when I come back to the tune. This is going to be extremely helpful in teaching me how the melody works (and after this, I should be on a good path towards understanding, and playing jazz). Thanks!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

This is going to be extremely helpful in teaching me how the melody works

How good are you about "learning a chord progression by ear" in Pop/Rock music?

 

[Matthew_84]

How good are you about "learning a chord progression by ear" in Pop/Rock music?

Good question.

Tbh, I never really tried to learn progressions by ear before, but I’d say my general pop/rock transcription skills were “ok” (meaning a step below good and maybe even decent, lol), but I approached it very differently and had different intentions.

I have never tried to sing along to a song and play it off my singing. I also barely sung along to my playing. I never even really tried to hear the chords/progressions. I simply wanted to play those pop/rock songs note for note - I didn’t care about improvisation, analysis, or remembering it/knowing it deeply. I’d only focus on learning the bass line, and I would listen to the song with my bass in-hand, looping sections of the recording if I had to, until I found the notes on my bass. I would often try to learn the chords afterwards (if it wasn’t already obvious by the bassline), but that was mostly to verify if my bassline was accurate. Knowing it was a C Major Triad was good enough for me - I didn’t care if it was a M6, Dom7, etc.

Basically, a completely different approach to what I’m trying now.

Back then, I’d have to write out those basslines as I went along, because I wasn’t really engraining them into me, and if I didn’t play it for a week or two, I’d forget about 20% of the lines, and maybe even the progression, but I truly didn’t care. I just wanted to be able to rock out to my favourite songs, and I only picked them out by ear because I felt like a phoney if I learned them from tab (which was from my own insecurities, and a result of imposter syndrome).

I didn’t mention it above, but as well as the other things I’m working on, is I currently am doing some transcriptions on some simpler hip-hop/funk basslines as well, to keep my ear working, but also because I love a lot of their rhythms, and it’s a nice mental break from all the information I’m currently taking in at times.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Good question.

Tbh, I never really tried to learn progressions by ear before, but I’d say my general pop/rock transcription skills were “ok” (meaning a step below good and maybe even decent, lol), but I approached it very differently and had different intentions.

I have never tried to sing along to a song and play it off my singing. I also barely sung along to my playing. I never even really tried to hear the chords/progressions. I simply wanted to play those pop/rock songs note for note - I didn’t care about improvisation, analysis, or remembering it/knowing it deeply. I’d only focus on learning the bass line, and I would listen to the song with my bass in-hand, looping sections of the recording if I had to, until I found the notes on my bass. I would often try to learn the chords afterwards (if it wasn’t already obvious by the bassline), but that was mostly to verify if my bassline was accurate. Knowing it was a C Major Triad was good enough for me - I didn’t care if it was a M6, Dom7, etc.

Basically, a completely different approach to what I’m trying now.

Back then, I’d have to write out those basslines as I went along, because I wasn’t really engraining them into me, and if I didn’t play it for a week or two, I’d forget about 20% of the lines, and maybe even the progression, but I truly didn’t care. I just wanted to be able to rock out to my favourite songs, and I only picked them out by ear because I felt like a phoney if I learned them from tab (which was from my own insecurities, and a result of imposter syndrome).

I didn’t mention it above, but as well as the other things I’m working on, is I currently am doing some transcriptions on some simpler hip-hop/funk basslines as well, to keep my ear working, but also because I love a lot of their rhythms, and it’s a nice mental break from all the information I’m currently taking in at times.

Let's start.

Here is a POP song with the most "abused" chord progression, but...
Your ears, your brain must recognize that progression - find I or i, find IV or iv, V, etc...

I don't care if that I is C or Bb or F, or Ab.
You need to find/recognize only, "Yes, it's I"
Next, you need to hear/recognize the chord movement as I - vi - IV - V and so on...



Here is another simple tune.

Another recognition of I (i) IV V vi, etc...
If you can hear/discern those maj7 or Dom7 chords - excellent.


Next.
Here is the Greatest Ella with the same song.

Listen to the chord progression.

Do you hear any differences while the MELODY is, kind of, identical to the first example?


Here is Billie Holliday with the same.
(The same questions)



Chet Baker with the same.

N.B. It has a very beautiful Double Bass solo.

 

[Matthew_84]

Let's start.

Here is a POP song with the most "abused" chord progression, but...
Your ears, your brain must recognize that progression - find I or i, find IV or iv, V, etc...

I don't care if that I is C or Bb or F, or Ab.
You need to find/recognize only, "Yes, it's I"
Next, you need to hear/recognize the chord movement as I - vi - IV - V and so on...



Here is another simple tune.

Another recognition of I (i) IV V vi, etc...
If you can hear/discern those maj7 or Dom7 chords - excellent.


Next.
Here is the Greatest Ella with the same song.

Listen to the chord progression.

Do you hear any differences while the MELODY is, kind of, identical to the first example?


Here is Billie Holliday with the same.
(The same questions)



Chet Baker with the same.

N.B. It has a very beautiful Double Bass solo.

Thanks! I’m busy now but will give these a listen later.

TBH, I likely will not be able to identify the progressions on my first listen, without an instrument. I may recognize the progression, but it’s very likely I won’t know what the intervals are, which is why I’m putting Alone Together on the back-burner for a bit while I work on improving my ear for progressions and intervals, as well as bettering my understanding of harmony.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Then its back to fake chord for me.

I have no idea what this means.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Thanks! I’m busy now but will give these a listen later.

TBH, I likely will not be able to identify the progressions on my first listen, without an instrument. I may recognize the progression, but it’s very likely I won’t know what the intervals are, which is why I’m putting Alone Together on the back-burner for a bit while I work on improving my ear for progressions and intervals, as well as bettering my understanding of harmony.

Start with the simplest Pop music chord progression, and let your ears/brain internalize it - it's a major chord, it's a minor chord, oh, yes, it's TONIC, Dominant, etc...

 

[ShadowGroover]

Start here to learn to hear Hearing the Changes

Free resource Aebersold Jazz Handbook

 

[basseux]

I can sing the melody (including through the solos) and can do it without playing the song, but I cannot for the life of me hear the roots of the chord progression by ear (ie, it’s hard to hear the basic movement of the progression).

It's really an easy one, the bass just plays the roots here.

So you just have to hear what the bass is playing and sing the bass.
If you can't hear the bass, that's another issue.
But it seems people go great lengths to figure chords and do not simply listen to the bass, while bass give out most of it already.

Now what you mostly need to understand better what's going on harmonically, is be able to hear the tonic, and must practice that on anything you listen to.

Knowing what is the tonic means that at any moment of the tune, you should be able to say oh this pitch I hear, and that i can sing whenever I want, is the tonic.
This will help you to fall back on your feet if your ear is getting lost.

This will help you hear the roots as scale degrees, which are basically intervals to the tonic.

You can work on solfegio too, mobile do, etcetera to strengthen all that.

 

[basseux]

Yep WAY easier to distinguish the bass lines !! OP version has no low end

It shouldn't matter.

Bassline is mostly a role.
Yes it's better served by lowens instruments, but I mean, a flute could play the bassline you would still know it's a bassline

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I have no idea what this means.

@Malcolm35 - my bad, I should have phrased that as a question. What do you mean by that?