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Help, please! Fake Precision??
- Thread starter MauMéndezC
- Start date
FWIW, from exchanging a few messages with him, I am fairly certain that this older Dutch gent is well-intentioned and doesn't know a lot about Fender bass vintage details, nor authenticating/dating them. He may well have bought this under the same pretense he's selling it under.
And the Squier vintage modified Telecaster...
But AGAIN the HEEL us not square it's a fretboard extension for more than 20 frets just like Warmoth and a large selection of other replacement necks ...
Sheesh
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WRONG I have seen identical basses being sold, decals and all on Dhgate and trade tang etal
Yup, I've seen those chinese "fenders" with the fake logo and us serial number on the back side of the headstock too.
This one for example says made in usa on the headstock ('70s logo) and have a '07 serial number (screenshots from a youtube video):
Wow. Another bad copy decal. You'd think they would download one of the good copies that are out there. Or buy them and reproduce.
As yo
This enterprise is about minimum effort.
The decal is a vanity badge, NOTHING MORE in this case. Its close enough to pass with 99.999999% of the public.
At the end of the day it's still just wood and electronics.
I have played one of these that was a gift to a friend of mine. I was actually very surprised.
It was a sunburst Jazz. Lightweight well figured basswood 3 piece body (fender uses 5 pieces)
A nicely shaped rosewood fretboard neck.
He said the electronics and hardware were worse than the squire Affinity series.. so he replaced them with hipshot and Dimarzio. An Aguilar obp3.
Guess what? He spent about the same money upgrading this thing as he would have if he started with a MIM jazz. The end result was far superior to that product. Would he have spent that effort to upgrade a Mim?
No. So other vendors profited from this knickoff purchase.
Did it take money out of FMIC'S pockets? Unlikely.
He would have bought used, so at the end it did not impact the conglomerate in the least.
Remember that Fender Japan just closed?
You know some of the back story there?
They were making fender Copies originally until Fender bought them.
Ibanez was cloning Gibson and RIC.
Burney nearly 30 years later still churns out better quality Gibson clones Than Gibson.
So what it comes down to is:
We are getting all up in arms over crooks ripping off idiots?
Isn't that what label (decal) snobbery creates even for the product originator?
Starbucks
Hagendaas
Name of almost any designer that charges you 50.00 for the privilage of wearing a 3.00 t-shirt silkscreened with THEIR COMPANY LOGO.
50.00 Bic lighters at Neiman
Gucci
Polo
The 2000 dollar power cable.
Get over it.
you Said earlier Larry, the rest of the public doesn't care.
This enterprise is about minimum effort.
The decal is a vanity badge, NOTHING MORE in this case. Its close enough to pass with 99.999999% of the public.
At the end of the day it's still just wood and electronics.
I have played one of these that was a gift to a friend of mine. I was actually very surprised.
It was a sunburst Jazz. Lightweight well figured basswood 3 piece body (fender uses 5 pieces)
A nicely shaped rosewood fretboard neck.
He said the electronics and hardware were worse than the squire Affinity series.. so he replaced them with hipshot and Dimarzio. An Aguilar obp3.
Guess what? He spent about the same money upgrading this thing as he would have if he started with a MIM jazz. The end result was far superior to that product. Would he have spent that effort to upgrade a Mim?
No. So other vendors profited from this knickoff purchase.
Did it take money out of FMIC'S pockets? Unlikely.
He would have bought used, so at the end it did not impact the conglomerate in the least.
Remember that Fender Japan just closed?
You know some of the back story there?
They were making fender Copies originally until Fender bought them.
Ibanez was cloning Gibson and RIC.
Burney nearly 30 years later still churns out better quality Gibson clones Than Gibson.
So what it comes down to is:
We are getting all up in arms over crooks ripping off idiots?
Isn't that what label (decal) snobbery creates even for the product originator?
Starbucks
Hagendaas
Name of almost any designer that charges you 50.00 for the privilage of wearing a 3.00 t-shirt silkscreened with THEIR COMPANY LOGO.
50.00 Bic lighters at Neiman
Gucci
Polo
The 2000 dollar power cable.
Get over it.
I agree. And my local luthier of choice and I have had this discussion a couple of times. This kind of statement could spark a holy war here in TB, but he said he could put a good pickup on a plywood body and make it sound good. I'm not going to doubt that the better counterfeits out there aren't good basses, or basses that have potential with a couple of upgrades. They're still not what they're pretending to be, though.
Yes, I know and remember it all very well from when it was actually going on during my high school years. It's also documented on Wikipedia.com and other places online. I would argue that the circumstances in those days were a little bit different. Post-CBS Fenders were considered by many to be crap. Legally recognized companies in Japan were making high-quality replicas that were arguably better quality than Fenders of the day. But they used their own names on the decals, not Fender's. To me, that's key.
That Fender bought the main companies that were cannibalizing their sales with less expensive, higher quality products made great business sense.
What we're talking about here, though, is forgeries of indeterminate quality made by (I would guess) companies of questionable ethics and indeterminate production values, riding on the 'quality indicator' of well-established company. (more on this below)
I am not sure all this discussion rises to the level of getting "up in arms". I'm/we're criticizing a practice that I think is very unfortunate. I'm not writing my congressman or anything
To me, it's not just label snobbery. You mention Starbucks and Häagen-Dazs, Polo and others. Branding is an interesting topic that is near and dear to my heart (professionally). I think you're conflating brand as a quality indicator with brand as a status badge. They are closely related but not quite the same thing. I buy Starbucks coffee not because I want to show everyone how cool I am, but because I know exactly what quality I'm getting. I know exactly what my product experience is going to be when I buy that brand. I buy Polo shirts (or Lacoste or whatever) because I know the quality, the durability, the fit, etc will be at a certain level. I couldn't give a monkey's what logo is on my chest. I buy a Fender bass because (at least since ~2008, anyway) I have a good idea of what my experience will be with the product and the company. Do I also care about showing off the label? In this case, yes, somewhat. I can admit that vanity. However, I'd still buy a product that I knew for a fact was made by Fender but had no decal vs. a product I know for a fact wasn't made by Fender but carried a Fender label. It's more about quality than status.
Anyway, please don't discount brand as a quality indicator, not just a vanity badge. As a quality mark, it's important to a lot of people, above and beyond the status aspect. The average consumer doesn't have a whole lot more to go on.
Oh, I will always get a kick out of busting the balls of fakers/scammers and con artists here and there. It's fun. Nothing to get over!
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Hold the presses, what's that you said?
Gibson even makes Gibson clones? I gotta get me one of those! Are they cheaper than a real Gibson? What's the quality like? Are they good for metal?
I did not mean the whole thing was pointed at you Larry
But you caught the spirit of what I said I'm my diatribe.
The nuance of the branding statement was not meant to degrade brand for capitalizing profits based on their cache, rather that the need to "show off" the brand name, to some people, is sadly tied to their feeling of self worth and status.
It is precisely this desire for status recognition that drives the forgeries of pedestrian items.
I seriously doubt that a forged Ritter could approach the quality of an original.
On the other hand, a design that was at its inception intended to be made in the most economic method possible (Fender) can be easily reproduced, as a reasonable facsimile.
The decal is just that; a decal. It only has "meaning" to those that assign meaning to it!
A t shirt is a t shirt until a company charges me for the pleasure and recognition I get (in my mind at least) for advertising their brand.
A precision bass bass replicated to an exacting degree without the decal is only worth less (even if better woods and finer attention to detail) than a fender due to the "percieved" (assigned) value by society at large. For good or bad, a decal is "worth" more than the sum of the actual product.
Again. Brands should charge what people are willing to pay.. but it is the label that has the assigned worth in many cases.
Sorry about the craptacular typing. In a moving car on a not so smartphone is not the best environment to type accurately
But you caught the spirit of what I said I'm my diatribe.
The nuance of the branding statement was not meant to degrade brand for capitalizing profits based on their cache, rather that the need to "show off" the brand name, to some people, is sadly tied to their feeling of self worth and status.
It is precisely this desire for status recognition that drives the forgeries of pedestrian items.
I seriously doubt that a forged Ritter could approach the quality of an original.
On the other hand, a design that was at its inception intended to be made in the most economic method possible (Fender) can be easily reproduced, as a reasonable facsimile.
The decal is just that; a decal. It only has "meaning" to those that assign meaning to it!
A t shirt is a t shirt until a company charges me for the pleasure and recognition I get (in my mind at least) for advertising their brand.
A precision bass bass replicated to an exacting degree without the decal is only worth less (even if better woods and finer attention to detail) than a fender due to the "percieved" (assigned) value by society at large. For good or bad, a decal is "worth" more than the sum of the actual product.
Again. Brands should charge what people are willing to pay.. but it is the label that has the assigned worth in many cases.
Sorry about the craptacular typing. In a moving car on a not so smartphone is not the best environment to type accurately
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