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Help with Markbass/Epi rig

petersland

petersland

Sep 29, 2007
199
22
Perth Western Australia
#1
As an older, ex-pro, I now play in a casual classic cover rock band with 2 guitarists and a heavy-handed drummer.
My current rig (for weight purposes) is a Markbass LMII and Epi UL2-212 (4 ohm).
I must say this is a dream on my back and the sound with my new Ric is awesome.
The problem I now have is volume, or lack of it.
My eq. is flat with gain at 2 o clock and master at 1 o clock.
Very loud on my own, with a slightly boomy bottom end, but with the band, I get lost and find it hard to hear myself.
Last night, I used my Markstand to point the speakers up, to no avail.

I think the amp is fine, but I am doubting my cabinet choice. Maybe I shouldn't have gone with a boutique cab for the music style?
My question is, would I be better off with a 4 x 10 (8 ohm) or even add a 15 (8 ohm) as well to push more air?
I'm usually not a 15" kind of Guy.

Your opinions grealty appreciated.
 
#2
Hello.

Well, the Epi212UL's have always been more about wide tone and deep bass, and that unfortunately has gotten more extreme with the Series II cabs IMO and IME.

I would call the 212UL 'pure, wide and open' versus 'tight and punchy', and that can sometimes result in a beautiful tone at home solo, but a lack of growl and low mid presence in a mix (especially in the playing context and with the instrument you have).

I guess the short term solution is to try cutting the bass just a touch (11 o'clock) and boosting the low mid by a similar amount (1 o'clock). Then, since the amp will be working a little less hard, crank the output master just a touch more. However, that won't solve your problem totally.

The Ric (and your playing context) probably would benefit from a cab with a strong dose of low mids and upper mids. There are quite a few out there, but not many lightweight ones IME. My current favorite with the LMII is the Bergantino AE410 (it's a 4ohm cab, which is key with the LMII)... 65 or so pounds (and actually quite a bit smaller than the UL212), very tight low end, and a mid response that just grinds with single coil pickups and the LMII. The AE410 is almost the mirror image of the 212UL... from a 'smiley face' voicing to a slight 'frowny face' voicing.

Try that slight EQ deal (and of course, leave that VPF totally off)... it really does make a difference. But, you might still not be happy with your 'in the mix' tone.

IMO and IME.
 
#3
Please forgive me if this seems a silly question, as I have no experience with Ricks other than my Yes and McCartney cd collection. Are they traditionally lower output than most basses? Then only reason I ask is that I play with a pretty heavy drummer, use 2 Aggie 1x12 cabs, and I have my gain set at 11:00. (I increased it until the clip light comes on, then backed off a touch) I've never had my master past 12:00. Would anyone think that raising the pup height on the bass would help out at all on the front end? Just a thought based on his volume settings, maybe the amp responds a little better with a hotter input?
 
#4
Master at one? Turn it up!

Try the master at 3-4 o'clock. And upper mids up a tad. say, 1-2 o'clock. See what happens. The Epi stuff can handle the juice. Maybe that will bring out some of the sound you're looking for?

The Epi stuff is more about bootom, or (slightly) scooped tone. Not that that is bad. Just another flavor. If that tone is not for you, then it's not for you.
 
#5
The older Rics were kinda weak in output, especially on the low end, because of a cap in the treble tone pot. The newer ones are hot as can be, I think. And, like the OP, I'm using a Ric bass, and Epi UL212 (with a Mesa head), in a classic rock cover band. I'm cutting through quite well, with 2 guitars, and a drummer with alot of control. Can't just be because I'm using another head, though I run mine flat, with my passive mid dimed. I certainly agree with KJung that the UL212 is a wide open cab, and can get boomy if your not careful, but maybe the eq tweaks would be enough to tighten it up some.
 
#7
If you want the ultimate 'cut thru the mix' cab, you need a schroeder. Last night I played my 1212R in a jam situation. There were two female singers, and two guitarists (who both sang) and the a LOUD drummer who also sang. The vocals sounded amazing. Anyway, I could hear my bass loud and clear with my LMII and 1212R. Totally different vibe from Epi stuff (I also have an epi 115 and 112) but if you are having trouble cutting thru, schroeder is the way to go cab wise IMO.
 
#8
I had the exact same problem with the Epifani UL410 and my LMII. Lows all over the place and just not cutting through. Cutting a bit of bass and boosting a little bit of low mids helped, but didn't give the result and sound I was hoping for. Boosting high mids made it way to aggressive for my liking.
I ended up selling the UL410 and buying a pair of 1x12" cabs (by a dutch cab builder called Vanderkley). Compared to the UL410, the set of 1x12"s put out a nice, warm, musical, full sound with all the lows I could wish for and mids with authority, but with defenition and uncompromised highs (the UL410 sounded a bit nasal as well, but that's another story).
I'm not saying the Epifani cabs are bad, but for the sound I like and the music my band makes, they didn't do it for me, no matter how I EQ'd my LMII.
 
#10
HitByABlimp said:
I had the exact same problem with the Epifani UL410 and my LMII. Lows all over the place and just not cutting through. Cutting a bit of bass and boosting a little bit of low mids helped, but didn't give the result and sound I was hoping for. Boosting high mids made it way to aggressive for my liking.
I ended up selling the UL410 and buying a pair of 1x12" cabs (by a dutch cab builder called Vanderkley). Compared to the UL410, the set of 1x12"s put out a nice, warm, musical, full sound with all the lows I could wish for and mids with authority, but with defenition and uncompromised highs (the UL410 sounded a bit nasal as well, but that's another story).
I'm not saying the Epifani cabs are bad, but for the sound I like and the music my band makes, they didn't do it for me, no matter how I EQ'd my LMII.
Click to expand...


The 410UL, especially the Series I, is a totally different thing than the 212UL. As you mention, the 410UL has a unique combination of lot's of growly upper mids, along with a nice big low end. I find the LMII to just KILL with a 410UL (but again, pure personal taste). I have about a ton of gigs on that combination, and it punches like crazy, at least with a J Type instrument! However, if you want more low mid punch and a more attenuated low end, per my above post, the 410UL Series II will get you a little closer than the 212UL, but the AE410 will get you there right on target!

IMO and IME.
 
#12
I just finished switching from Epi to Schro for the reasons you state. The Epi cabs sounded best solo, but in the band context I find the Schroeder stuff amazing. I have to reign in the mids a bit (as opposed to accentuating them with my old Epi cabs), but when I do that the tone is great and the bass is easy to hear. With my 1212L I can position the cab on end and choose to fire the angled driver right at my head (I always wera plugs) or down into the floor. I just got a new Schro 15+L which also cuts like a scimitar-it weighs as much as my Epi 112 and comes in 4 or 8 Ohm.
 
#13
KJung said:
The 410UL, especially the Series I, is a totally different thing than the 212UL. As you mention, the 410UL has a unique combination of lot's of growly upper mids, along with a nice big low end. I find the LMII to just KILL with a 410UL (but again, pure personal taste). I have about a ton of gigs on that combination, and it punches like crazy, at least with a J Type instrument! However, if you want more low mid punch and a more attenuated low end, per my above post, the 410UL Series II will get you a little closer than the 212UL, but the AE410 will get you there right on target!

IMO and IME.
Click to expand...

I will echo Ken's comments re: the UL-410 I. I've never had a problem being heard in the mix (clams included). To my ears, and those of my bandmates, the UL-410 seemed to cut through even better when I started running big horespower through it. My Demeter HBP-1J/Crown XTi 2000 pairing run mono-bridged really snapped things into focus. But I completely understand how the UL-410 (and UL's in general) could get lost in the mix with certain amps and basses. ;):)

M. M.
 
#14
You didn't mention if you are using any effects or pedals. I was using a Zoom multi-effects pedal and more recently determined that it was sucking the life out of my gear (Sadowsky, Epifani). I recently stopped using the pedal and it sounds much better without it. The other issue is the Ric is a passive bass and therefore not as hot. You might try borrowing an active bass and see if there is a lot of difference.
If so you could remedy that pretty cheap by getting a pre pedal such as Sadowsky or Aguilar which can make a passive bass run hot like an active one. You might also look at modifying the Ric with hotter pickups.

Just some suggestions.
 
#15
+2 to Ken's statement.
The Epi 410UL Series I had was great with the LMII, but I agree that the Epi's have a lot of bottom more than I wanted. Although I have not tried one I think the AE410 by Bergantino would be most excellent. I plan on trying one sometime myself. Berg makes outstanding stuff. The Schroeder's do cut the mix... for sure.
 
#16
A big thankyou to your valuable input.
You have given me alot to go away and play with.
I will try the eq. suggestions to hopefully get a sound I am happy with before I go out and spend again. The Wife would probably kill me.
If not, I'll see if I can find a Berg or Schroeder Dealer to try out the cab suggestions.
The pickup height suggestion is also a good one.
I did some adjustments at first to tame the A string and enhance the E, but maybe I was a little over zealous with the E.
The joys of trial and error hey.
Cheers again. Pete.
 
#19
jesso said:
Hey, why does no-one show any love for the markbass cabs?
They cut through like crazy, and are nice and light.
I love mine anyhow.:hmm:
Click to expand...
Precision syndrome...people listening in stores think, "Wow, that doesn't sound so pretty," without realizing that it's voiced almost perfectly for a band.
 
#20
JimmyM said:
Precision syndrome...people listening in stores think, "Wow, that doesn't sound so pretty," without realizing that it's voiced almost perfectly for a band.
Click to expand...

Ya, I'd really like to try these cabs in a gig context. When I tried the 410 at CB it sounded good, but after plugging into the Sadowsky and Berg (I know Berg makes 'em both) the MB didn't sound as "lively". It reminded me of the Eden cabs (not a bad thing at all). The fact that they are slightly more expensive than the Bergs was also a consideration.
 

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