• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Help with rig volume

sidonbass

sidonbass

Supporting Member
May 27, 2006
332
186
Santa Fe, New Mexico
#1
My current rig for a weekly jazz quartet gig consisting of drums, guitar, sax, and upright. We often have another horn sit in.
My rig:
Upright bass to Redeye preamp to Traynor 500 watt head to Raezers Edge 110.
It just doesn’t have the volume to cut through.
The obvious weak link is the 110 cab. It sounds great in other low volume situations.
Would a 112 help? A lot? If so, brands to consider?
Thanks!
If
 
#2
Something you need to consider is that unless your Raezer’s Edge 110 is a 4 ohm speaker, the Traynor SB500H won’t
produce 500 watts into a 8 ohm speaker. It’s closer to 335 watts. So, it’s not as powerful as a head rated 500 watts into a
8 ohm load. Most modern heads are rated into 4 ohms rather than 8. A 112 would give a bit more volume. A 4 ohm cabinet
if they’re even available, would give you more power. I commonly use a 500 watt powered cabinet with a preamp. It’s plenty
of power for most quartet gigs. Traynor and Razer’s Edge both make high quality products, it’s up to you whether they meet
your needs. Just my take of course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sidonbass
#4
Keith Rawlings said:
Get you a 4 ohm Audiokinesis Thunderchild 112. They come up here regularly for sale and can get way loud with a 4 ohm amp head.
Click to expand...
Excellent option but they’re getting harder to find.
IMHO, 4 vs 8 ohms (500 vs 335 watts) is less of an issue than an efficient 112 cabinet. 110 vs 112 doesn’t seem like a big difference but a quality 112 will definitely keep up with that ensemble. An EA Wizzy 112 might be easier to find used.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zbysek, Keyser Soze, AGCurry and 3 others
#5
Jeff Kissell said:
Excellent option but they’re getting harder to find.
IMHO, 4 vs 8 ohms (500 vs 335 watts) is less of an issue than an efficient 112 cabinet. 110 vs 112 doesn’t seem like a big difference but a quality 112 will definitely keep up with that ensemble. An EA Wizzy 112 might be easier to find used.
Click to expand...
Do they make Wizzys in 4 ohm models? I had trouble finding anything in a 4 ohm cab from Wizzy and lots of other brands for my Clarus series 4 when I was cab hunting last year. I settled on the AI DoubleShot as it fit my needs better than anything else, but the Wizzys are nice—they just all seemed to be 8 ohms.
 
#6
If your current 10" is 8ohm....you would get more volume by adding a second 10" 8ohm in parallel. Not only would this maximize the output wattage of the amp, but give more surface area to move air.
You could also just add a single 12 @4ohm or run the 10" and 12" in parallel if they're both 8ohm cabs. (If I mix speaker sizes in a rig, it's generally recommended to biamp and use a crossover...that might be more complicated than what you're wanting). If it were me, I'd go the 2*10 route.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MCF, buldog5151bass, BassNugget and 5 others
#8
Keith Rawlings said:
Do they make Wizzys in 4 ohm models? I had trouble finding anything in a 4 ohm cab from Wizzy and lots of other brands for my Clarus series 4 when I was cab hunting last year. I settled on the AI DoubleShot as it fit my needs better than anything else, but the Wizzys are nice—they just all seemed to be 8 ohms.
Click to expand...

As I recall, they did offer some in 4 ohm versions but they weren’t all that common.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keith Rawlings and JeffKissell
#9
An Audiokenisis TC 112 would give you more coverage and sound louder. I loved mine. It is an unusual shape that’s taller because of the different horns Dukes used in his builds. The crossover is the best I’ve ever heard. The caveat here is that a new Audiokinesis TC 112 will run you $1,000.00 , $1,200 for the Acoustic Friendly version
plus shipping. That’s a substantial investment in a bass cabinet, well worth the money IME, but far more than a Raezer’s Edge 110 costs. I haven’t seen a TC 112 for sale used as of late.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Keith Rawlings and John Chambliss
#11
I find any 1x10 struggles in this situation.

I'll add a second 1x10, or use a 1x12 (Genz Benz) or even 1x15 if available.

You could probably buy a used Upshot 1x10, point it at your face, and let the Raezers edge fill the room, but then you'd have to carry two cabs.
 
#12
I don't think OP should be too concerned with 4 vs 8 ohms for a single driver cab. I'm not sure how that became the focus. In fact, I think for a single 10" or 12", OP is probably better off with an 8 ohm cab because a speaker typically looses 2 or 3dB in efficiency when you go from 8 to 4 ohms, and there just aren't that many 10" or 12" speakers that are gonna handle the 500 Watts from OP's Traynor--the Thunderchild being an exception here (mine is rated for 450W IIRC)--so the extra ~3db or so you gain from the extra power, you loose in efficiency. And that's only if you weren't already close to the power limit in the first place.

All that said, the TC112 would be a great option if OP can actually find one. I'm not sure about the specs on the Raezer's Edge, but I would expect the TC to blow it out of the water. A good 1x10" just isn't going to compare to a super 1x12".

Another option might be the Eden EX112, which is a compact little (almost) cube with a whizzer cone. I had one as a backup for a while, and its slightly mid-forward sound worked really well with DB. Also, the dispersion from the whizzer cone was significantly better than most 12's. Bonus is that it's really affordable--and it actually comes in both 8 and 4 ohm if that's really important, but stick with the 8 unless you're trying to run it with a low power head.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keith Rawlings, Wasnex, sidonbass and 1 other person
#14
Another thing to check is gain-staging. Regardless of sound quality, can you get more volume going direct into the Traynor and skipping the RedEye? If not then I agree to search for a more efficient cabinet - don’t get stuck on speaker size or configuration, just look for efficiency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jim Dedrick
#16
Keith Rawlings said:
Do they make Wizzys in 4 ohm models? I had trouble finding anything in a 4 ohm cab from Wizzy and lots of other brands for my Clarus series 4 when I was cab hunting last year.
Click to expand...

I bought both of my Wizzy 12" M-lines years ago, sold one here a couple of years ago. They were both 4 ohm. I think 4 ohm Wizzys were just as -- or more -- common than 8 ohm.

I highly recommend Wizzy M-lines; they sound great with both electric and upright and pack a lot of punch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keith Rawlings and bassically_eli
#18
Ed Fuqua said:
Jesus, how loud are you playing? I used the Woods LoPower (125 watts) for outdoor gigs with a quartet for years.
Click to expand...
I suspect what he wants is a rock and roll bass in your face sound rather than a supportive jazz bass underlying the band.

Last upright gig I played was cornet, clarinet, guitar, drums, piano, and upright - and I did it with my 15W practice amp, because that's what I had. I didn't even have a preamp, went straight from the piezo pickup into the practice amp.

It was loud enough. Yeah, the little amp was about topped out, but I was perfectly well audible.

Now if this "jazz quartet" fancy themselves one of Miles' electric bands, all bets are off.
 
#19
Keep in mind that when Basie or Goodman or Chick Webb played the Roseland Ballroom with a thousand dancers shuffling and talking and drinking, the bass player was using for amplification - bupkis. Just strong hands. And these were big bands with 4 or 5 saxes, trombones (highest SPL level of any wind instrument) and such weak-sister trumpet players as Roy Eldridge and his ilk. Yeah, the bass players had to really work, and in that extreme condition they really COULDN'T be heard a lot of the time, but wanting more than a 500W amp and 1 x 10 cabinet for a jazz quartet may be indicative of a different sense of the bass role.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sidonbass and Ric Vice
#20
Some of the Raezers Edge cabinets appear to use pretty low efficiency drivers, and some are only rated for 150W, so not the loudest 110s out there. It looks like they all use stock Eminence drivers, though, so that makes comparing specs easy. @sidonbass which one specifically are you using? If you just need a little more volume, adding an HPF and adjusting EQ might get you there.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back