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Help with Schroeder Cabs

Gearhead17

Gearhead17

Supporting Member
May 4, 2006
5,276
3,624
Mount Prospect, IL
www.afterforeverband.com
#1
I am confused at which Schroeder cab to go for. I have been talking to Jorg Schroeder and I am hesistant to go for something I can not even try much less return. 48hr return policy at Bass Central can work.....but every where else is looking bleak.

212BMF, 210PL, 410PL are the models I am considering. Anyone tried the Punch Line Series just yet? Bass Central has them already.

I am looking more at the 212BMF right now. Is anyone near the Chicago land area willing to let me try out the 212BMF? The only place near me with Schroeders has the 21012 and no other models. I have test driven the 21012 and love the volume and headroom, but need something with more growl in the upper mids with less presence in the 200-600hz range. I play in a cover band and having a versatile bass cab is crucial for me.

I have been reading several of the reviews on Talkbass and have gotten some great advice from them. The definitive question though - does the 212BMF have the upper mid growl along with decent response in the low mids? (200hz to 400hz). I do use a pick if the song calls for it, but mostly play finger style. I change my tones up purely with my hands.

Any help is appreciated and if I am not being clear enough, please let me know.
 
#5
I am playing the 1212BMF's and have the following observations to offer:

Cabs are VERY smooth from lower mids through the highs; they have plenty of bark and growl. They do NOT have the lower end "pillow." At all.

I am still trying to figure out how the lack of "pillow" affects live tonal performance. Solo, it can be somewhat unsatisfying; but tone at home is not where the money is. On stage, and particularly with FOH support, the lack of low "pillow" below the lower mids may actually be an advantage, because it keeps the bass out of the mics more effectively. At least, that is what I am finding.

Anyhow, I've been gigging them for about a year now, and am still trying to figure out the realities of the situation. Sorry for the less than clear message. Back in the days of vox only through the mains, I would not have chosen this cab. With FOH, I find the situation a little confusing. Seems like this cab works really well with FOH, but I would (and do) keep an alternate rig for times when you don't have that.

Unrelated to your tonal question, but the cabs at 38 pounds are crazy easy to load in and out, a not insignificant factor to me. Nearly any cab that can push the same presence is going to weigh more. There are some interesting cabs from Audio Kinesis and Barefaced that could fill a similar role, but with more low end. However, again, I am undecided where the low end fits into a busy FOH mix. YMMV GL
 
#6
bucephylus said:
I am playing the 1212BMF's and have the following observations to offer:

Cabs are VERY smooth from lower mids through the highs; they have plenty of bark and growl. They do NOT have the lower end "pillow." At all.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your detailed response, a lot of it made sense to me! It seems like cabs are either in the low mid thick department or at the growly/barky end of the spectrum. Any time I play a cab that has both tonal properties, it weighs a bunch like the Eden 410XLT and the Mesa Powerhouse 410!

The big issue I am having on stages - I am too close to the FOH subwoofers and drummer's monitors. I hear the low end of my bass from EVERYWHERE I stand. So lately I have been decreasing the low end content at 120hz and below at shows from my mesa rig. This allows me to hear the mids and higher on my Mesa rig while feeling and hearing my low end from the FOH. Hence why I was looking at cabs that focus more on midrange with some low end.

Thanks for the responses so far.
 
#7
Gearhead17 said:
The big issue I am having on stages - I am too close to the FOH subwoofers and drummer's monitors. I hear the low end of my bass from EVERYWHERE I stand. So lately I have been decreasing the low end content at 120hz and below at shows from my mesa rig. This allows me to hear the mids and higher on my Mesa rig while feeling and hearing my low end from the FOH. Hence why I was looking at cabs that focus more on midrange with some low end.
Click to expand...
Well, that's the point I am also trying to get a handle on. Those lower freqs are pretty much omni-directional and just go all over the place. So, when you are playing with bass bins, the low end sort of runs all over the place. Putting it out on stage drives the sound guys nuts. I honestly don't know what the right answer is. For the moment, I am using the 1212 configuration in these situations, but not really liking the whole dish; if that makes sense.
 
#8
Let me also say that my sense is that we have moved from the FOH providing "sound reinforcement," which to me means reinforcing the sound the musicians were already creating, to the FOH actually being the basis of the sound; and then, the amps on stage have a really different role, and more as monitors. I don't really dig the FOH thing now, because to a large extent, it removes tonal control from the player; but, it is here to stay and a reality, so get used to it. Again, IMO and YMMV.
 
#9
bucephylus said:
Let me also say that my sense is that we have moved from the FOH providing "sound reinforcement," which to me means reinforcing the sound the musicians were already creating, to the FOH actually being the basis of the sound; and then, the amps on stage have a really different role, and more as monitors. I don't really dig the FOH thing now, because to a large extent, it removes tonal control from the player; but, it is here to stay and a reality, so get used to it. Again, IMO and YMMV.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of that. I am currently looking at Barefaced cabs and I already like what I see. Unless someone can steer me otherwise, I do not think I am going for a Schroeder.
 
#10
Between Schroeder, AK, and Barefaced there are now some reasonable small boxes that produce useful volumes.

I would personally have to line all 3 up and get them out on gigs to assess the practical differences between them. I'm probably not all that excited to lay out that much dough right now; plus I am still somewhat perplexed about tonal goals in a working FOH situation; since they seem to be somewhat different than solo at home.

For now, I would say to pick your poison, get something that is at least useful, and then monitor what the cats are all saying on this board. Odds are, it may take some time before the newer technologies work themselves into the mainstream.
 
#13
Had the 610L, amazing, smooth, punchy, articulate and deep actually too. Not my fav for the really tight B string on my Warrior 5, other than that amazing cab and the LOUDEST one too.

Had the 412BMF - more low mid, more growl, deeper extension. But I sold it (that was tough) since I ordered twin 215BMF SeriesII (1000w per cab) and with those I need nothing!
For 5 string players that want frogs ass tight alllll the way down, the new 215BMF Series II is the cab to go for.

Of course, I just got my 210PL yesterday from Jorg , was FLOORED, and immediately ordered one more so I think I am now finished !!

215BMF II, 210PL - my 2 fav cabs ever, period, bar none.
Tell him Andy sent ya!
 
#14
I am just north of Chicago in Kenosha. I am sorry I only have the original Schroeder cabinets. A 1212 and a Mini 12. Go to archives.com and find Cosmic Railroad. All the tunes after 2007 on there would be recorded live through those cabinets. All on 5 string either Modulus or MIA Fender Deluxe basses.
 
#15
Gearhead17 said:
Thanks for your detailed response, a lot of it made sense to me! It seems like cabs are either in the low mid thick department or at the growly/barky end of the spectrum. Any time I play a cab that has both tonal properties, it weighs a bunch like the Eden 410XLT and the Mesa Powerhouse 410!
Click to expand...

I agree with Bucephylus' description of the tone (I have a 115L+... similar to the general BMF voicing.. tight, mid punchy, attenuated low end, grindy).

Per your description above, you might consider the new Bergantino AE212 (I have a couple of clips up). It is $1,150 or so with padded cover (a must with the spray on finish that is a little fragile, versus the more truck bed liner stuff that Jorg uses that you can take a hammer to and not hurt it) and shipping. It is 55 pounds, so not featherweight... but it HAMMERS down low and still has some nice upper mid briteness and grind to it. VERY nice solution, more even and wide than the 212BMF, but still nice and punchy.

Just an idea, and not sure my experience with the cab will be that valuable, since we seem to have very different playing styles and tone goals per your profile.

I have a buddy in town (TBer Matrok) who plays a Schroeder 1212L (the small baffle cab) and has a more 'rock oriented' grindy tone goal (he playes P basses and Reverend J's and uses a VT pedal or a Trace 'V Type' amp), and it sounds pretty killer.... punchy with decent grind. The 1212BMF should get you there also with that tone.
 
#16
Ken's got good input. I played a Berg NV610 last night in the same room where I've been playing the 1212BMF. Sound guys impression was that it produced a much smoother tone, but not as mid-present as the 1212BMF. That Schroeder sound is much more audible to the player in the stage mix. It kind of hits you in the ears like a brick; much more cutting.

In addition to Ken's suggestion of the AE212, there is also a Barefaced 212 with and without a tweeter, and AudioKinesis, which Ken is using, is expected to release a 212. I would say between the Schro BMF, the AE212, the Barefaced and the AK, the player has some tough choices, and the selection would be based on your tonal objectives. I sure wish I could somehow audition all those without buying them.:help:
 
#17
Just a thought , what the ultimate goal? Do you play through a PA like I do? If so, then the reality is your cab serves for cutting/your stage volume more than anything. I have not recorded putting a mic to a cab in quite a long time either, I go DI and pure raw bass and head tone, and the sound engineer does whatever from there.

Ambient tone & sound like no PA and small gigs, that's another story, and one I am not too familiar with.
I sold all my Eden, SWR, Genz, Ampeg, and you name it that I had over the last few years- the Schroe's are the bomb. Bergs never did a thing for me. Epifani even less. Bag End are awesome, but the 410 was 100 lbs!!
JMHO
 
#18
amcsatx said:
Just a thought , what the ultimate goal? Do you play through a PA like I do? If so, then the reality is your cab serves for cutting/your stage volume more than anything. I have not recorded putting a mic to a cab in quite a long time either, I go DI and pure raw bass and head tone, and the sound engineer does whatever from there.

Ambient tone & sound like no PA and small gigs, that's another story, and one I am not too familiar with.
I sold all my Eden, SWR, Genz, Ampeg, and you name it that I had over the last few years- the Schroe's are the bomb. Bergs never did a thing for me. Epifani even less. Bag End are awesome, but the 410 was 100 lbs!!
JMHO
Click to expand...
Really good point - tonal objectives are somewhat different between FOH and non-FOH gigs.

Part of the thing is that FOH has transitioned in many cases from sound reinforcement, meaning reinforcing the stage sound, to now being the dominant sound on its own. I will admit that while I am somewhat sure of my tonal goals without FOH, I am still working on understanding what is wanted for stage mix. The Schro cut is very effective at that role. IME
 
#19
Buc, exactly. I'm a tone freak just like all of us here but what does all the money and trouble really accomplish? Are we applying the money and efforts in the right places? is our goal to impress the sound guy??
the crowd is hearing the PA. Big huge money on cabs is a waste, spend it on the bass then the head.

For me, cabs that are needing to be LIGHT, portable, very solid in construction, and faithfully reproduce my tone while cutting thru - that's it.
What are the gives and takes, and which ones are YOU ranking as top or bottom of the list ???
 
#20
amcsatx said:
Buc, exactly. I'm a tone freak just like all of us here but what does all the money and trouble really accomplish? Are we applying the money and efforts in the right places? is our goal to impress the sound guy??
the crowd is hearing the PA. Big huge money on cabs is a waste, spend it on the bass then the head.

For me, cabs that are needing to be LIGHT, portable, very solid in construction, and faithfully reproduce my tone while cutting thru - that's it.
What are the gives and takes, and which ones are YOU ranking as top or bottom of the list ???
Click to expand...

Remember, that are thousands and thousands of us who rarely have front of house support... playing freelance casuals and jazz gigs in clubs and restaurants.

And also remember, in MANY situations where I have had front of house support (i.e., large convention work, big fundraisers, and even a few high end clubs) it is rare for me to a) have my own monitor mix so that I can get the volume and tone I enjoy from my bass on stage and b) rarely have side fills or monitors that sound in ANY way near the quality of my backline.

It is rare that you see a bass player without backline, except for those who use in ears (not that many) or those on the top 1% of the touring world with class AAAA sound support.
 

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