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HER NAME IS CAROL KAYE

I love Jamerson's playing, and it's very sad that he died far too young. But keep in mind, Carol Kaye is still very much alive. There is no need for speculation when you can correspond with her.

I'm a complete blank stranger to her and decided to email her. She not only responded, but also sent me a wealth of information in attachments across three different emails. It's fascinating stuff. Things were very different back then.

She is a great player and from what I can tell from our few emails back and forth, a very nice lady.

I also e-mailed her and she sent me a ton of reading too.
We went back and forth with some e-mails and yes, she was very nice and I was suprised she took the time to reply to me so many times.

Oh, and she plays the $h!t out of that Kojak theme.
Kojak Theme 1973 - 1978 - YouTube

THAT is one helluva bass anthem!
 
I have no wish to get into the controversy of this thread. I do know that from a personal experience I had with her chatting in real time on another bassist website late one night, she was a kind individual that seemed to take a sincere interest. We chatted for 20 or 30 minutes, and she had some good insights. She is opinionated at times but let's be honest here and just look at other threads that musicians respond to here: aren't the vast majority of us?

She just seemed like a kind soul.
 
"Trolling threads and posts will not be tolerated. Trolling is defined as making inflammatory posts, lacking in substance pertaining to the thread topic, simply to elicit a negative emotional response from the thread participants. Moderator discretion applies.

Being that, by their very nature, they contribute nothing positive but rather celebrate the negative direction a thread may have taken, "IBTL" posts and their ilk are considered trolling."
 
I absolutely agree that the many and various studio musicians who had a hand in creating so much great music deserve to have their contributions noted, especially bassists who tend to be passed over in histories as their role is less well understood by the public compared to guitarists, for example.

And yes, the music CK contributed to was massively influential.

But to compare her influence as a bass player on other musicians, and to the role of a bassist in popular music, to Jamerson's, is a complete nonsense. His popularity now is in no doubt partly due to the efforts of Slutsky, et al, but without the revolutionary style he pioneered, and the monumentous skill and musicianship he displayed with every note he played, over a span of a decade, the book and movie would have been nothing more than an interesting sidenote to musical history, and Jamerson's notoriety would not have increased much more than any other subject of a musical biopic.

The fact is that every once in a while music throws up a truly exceptional visionary who is able to transform the medium he works in, and by example paves the way for other musicians, whether they share his instrument or not.

IMO Jamerson is one of these, and he inspired the ones who in turn went on the become innovators and ground-breakers themselves, as well redefining the role of the bass in a way few others did, or could, as he did what he did at such an early stage of the instrument's history. Few knew his name, but they sure as heck were listening and studying those revolutionary sounds that were emanating from Studio A.

If you did a similar book about CK, would you really be able to find so many monsters of bass, from McCartney to Entwistle with everyone in between, who would gladly play his lines and elucidate their gratitude to her for their influence, or indeed for being the one who first inspired them to pick up the bass?

I'm all for giving credit where its due, and I don't believe music is a competition, nor should we need to compare musicians to appreciate their value, but a little historical perspective and recognition of the chronological significance of Jamerson's achievements compared to Carol Kaye's are necessary here.

None of this would be necessary if she wasn't so insistent on playing up her role and denigrating that of her fellow bassists, and some of her claims are simply unexcusable IMO, while others are more easily explained or forgiven.

Unfortunately she is her own worst enemy, and her vision of what the bass's role is in music is extremely limited and doesn't extend beyond her own style and experience. Studying her work is fun and educative, but her personality and dogmatism have not endeared her to many who she may have touched more deeply if she had behaved otherwise.

Anyway, that's my take on things and I have a feeling I'm far from alone.

Agreed. It is that limitation in her view of the bass's role that makes it difficult for me to appreciate what she does, but she most certainly does it very well.
 
I think she's a great bassist and one who proves you can do much more than many claim you can do with a pick if you like.

Here's a clip of her playing with Wooten and Bailey at NAMM ... enjoy!

Carol Kaye,Steve Bailey&Victor Wooten BassSession NAMMSHOW 2000 - YouTube

PS - She's a hell of a guitarist as well. Link Removed

Cool.

never been much of a fan of pick bass, even wizards like Chris Squire who can at least make it work for me don't quite do it for me.... but I agree with the above post.. she plays a pick bass well, and that's a sound that's ligit in and of itself.
 
I've got one of her courses, and I found it extremely helpful. I like her chord based approach, and her pick technique works extremely well for me, as I use a pick a lot with the cover band I play in now, where we do a lot of rock, punk, and indie stuff.
 
That could be said about most threads on this site. I'm sorry I haven't impressed you, I didn't realize that was the goal of Talkbass.

You have the right to your opinions, no one else here was questioning anyone's right to express theirs.
 
That could be said about most threads on this site. I'm sorry I haven't impressed you, I didn't realize that was the goal of Talkbass.

There is nothing valuable to be learned by anyone at this point in the evolution of Carol bashing threads.

I agree the "goal" of Talkbass isn't to impress me. Your foolish sarcasm does inadvertently raise a very good question though: What is the point of Talkbass?
Is it to repeatedly year after year criticize particular bass players to the point it many times over overshadows their achievements?

You have the right to your opinions, no one else here was questioning anyone's right to express theirs.

The "right" to an opinion isn't an excuse for mindless continuance of a negative meme. Further I'd submit it isn't really "your" opinion at all but one you've borrowed in lieu of actual first hand knowledge or serious research.
 
who says everyone on this thread is bashing Carol? :confused::rollno::eyebrow:

I certainly didn't say or ever imply "everyone" was. Not sure where you got that.
Read my actual words, read them carefully and take them at face value. :confused::rollno::eyebrow:

This isn't the first of these discussions I've been a part of over the last fifteen years and they haven't gotten any more interesting with each new generation. I'd suggest you rocket scientists do a search of the many past Carol Kaye threads that have gone down this path. Don't take my word for it that you're beating a long dead horse and have little hope for a constructive much less an original contribution; go see for yourselves.
And since I have nothing more to contribute I'll leave y'all to roll around in it.
Enjoy.
 
Talent and credit-taking controversy aside, one thing CK clearly has in her favor is a rich teaching history and a track record of giving back to the bass playing community. Granted CK has lived a much longer life than JJ, but that is in no small part due to her decision to stay clean and take better care of herself health wise. I wish I were able go to a JJ website and purchase the wide range of instructional materials that I currently can on CK's website.

Other than some transcriptions of JJ's great bass parts (done by others), the only evidence I've seen of instructional material from him is [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], what a shame!