HER NAME IS CAROL KAYE

[Pet Sounds]

It's not that we don't believe you're passionate and knowledgeable about this subject, it's that we find discussing this as useful and worthwhile (and relevant) as fighting over who killed JFK.

Carol Kaye killed JFK now???

 

[One Drop]

Carol Kaye killed JFK now???

Wouldn't THAT be nice?

 

[Alkali Ike]

I could be mistaken, but I think if the OP has any connection to the project, (s)he may be required to disclose that fact according to TB rules.

Fair enough, that's a reasonable rule. If the OP is affiliated with the project, he/she should just say so. "Hey I'm on the team that wants to make this documentary and we'd love to have TB'ers help us make it happen!"

 

[mindwell]

OMG there's a conspiracy to solicit voluntary funding toward the making of a documentary about Carol Kaye! Someone alert the media.

As emor pointed out, this may--or may not--be forbidden by TB rules; Admin's call. But the OP's original posting conveys a rather different impression than an up-front solicitation for funding. To quote: "I just came across a site for a new documentary on legendary bassist CAROL KAYE."

Just sayin'.

 

[Alkali Ike]

As emor pointed out, this may--or may not--be forbidden by TB rules; Admin's call. But the OP's original posting conveys a rather different impression than an up-front solicitation for funding. To quote: "I just came across a site for a new documentary on legendary bassist CAROL KAYE."

Just sayin'.

Yeah, the OP could just be a very big CK fan who's trying to get the word out among bassists.

 

[M.Wrenn]

Honestly, I can't stand any aspect of her personality or her playing.

 

[emor]

If the OP is affiliated with the project, he/she should just say so. "Hey I'm on the team that wants to make this documentary and we'd love to have TB'ers help us make it happen!"

I agree with this.
I would be interested in seeing it if it gets made.



TalkBass Forums - Rules/FAQ/CUP: Commercial User Policy

 

[anonymous122511]

Honestly, I can't stand any aspect of her personality or her playing.

I stick my head in these CK threads because I do like her playing and had a valuable correspondence over several months with her fifteen years or so ago. It would never occur to me to jump into a thread about a player I had no use for to say I had no use for him or her. Do you think anyone really cares?

And nobody cares what she did or didn't play on either. That topic has been done to death and then some. It drove her off alt.guitar.bass before TalkBass even existed. Only a desperate, attention starved schlemiel beats a horse this dead. It would really be nice if for once those of us who do have respect for her could talk about it without those who don't feeling like they have to tell everyone about it over and over and over and over ad nauseum.

 

[TripleDouble]

I have it on good authority that Carol Kaye played most of the bass on the first three Beatles albums, as well as on the song "Bleed" by Meshuggah.

 

[M.Wrenn]

I stick my head in these CK threads because I do like her playing and had a valuable correspondence over several months with her fifteen years or so ago. It would never occur to me to jump into a thread about a player I had no use for to say I had no use for him or her. Do you think anyone really cares?

No, just my opinion.

 

[BassmanSBK]

if she weren't a women, nobody would even know who she was... JMHO.

If she weren't a woman, EVERYONE would know who she is.

 

[Eublet]

Again, Motown was a major influence on music. But so was the pop stuff that Kaye did. So much music sprang out of the work she was a part of. I'm not talking about bass players citing their influences. And again, Jamerson's fame is still fairly recent because of the documentary and a whole lot of recent publication about what he and some fellow musicians did. No one is taking away from that. Someone still needs to document the LA scene and what Kaye and Company did. It's just as worthy of the highest accolades. Kaye and Jamerson aren't pitted against each other. Just because she claims to have recorded a few songs he is credited with doesn't mean we have to hate Kaye and protect some sacred cow. It's just silly.

 

[Alkali Ike]

Again, Motown was a major influence on music. But so was the pop stuff that Kaye did. So much music sprang out of the work she was a part of. I'm not talking about bass players citing their influences. And again, Jamerson's fame is still fairly recent because of the documentary and a whole lot of recent publication about what he and some fellow musicians did. No one is taking away from that. Someone still needs to document the LA scene and what Kaye and Company did. It's just as worthy of the highest accolades. Kaye and Jamerson aren't pitted against each other. Just because she claims to have recorded a few songs he is credited with doesn't mean we have to hate Kaye and protect some sacred cow. It's just silly.

This.

 

[jerry]

. Someone still needs to document the LA scene and what Kaye and Company did.

Check out the Wrecking Crew movie if it comes near you, great stuff!

 

[emor]

These are some of the TV themes she is credited with.
(Someone else would have to say for sure if it is her on the first four--sounds like her playing.)


Kojak Opening - YouTube

The Streets of San Francisco - YouTube

Cannon intro - YouTube

Barnaby Jones intro - YouTube

Hikky Burr-Bill & Quincy - YouTube

 

[Kwesi]

I have it on good authority that Carol Kaye played most of the bass on the first three Beatles albums, as well as on the song "Bleed" by Meshuggah.

.

 

[JTE]

Absulutely...Ms Kaye (In Bass Player Magazine)...paraphraising...James Jamerson came to L.A...but there were PROBLEMS...just for one. She has always insisted that Osborne got the "easy" parts", and she got the "difficult" ones. Take a look at Osbornes discography and look at all those "easy" parts. She simply could have stated (likely true) that she was a better sightreader than Osborne...and took parts which were more elaborately written. Just a couple of examples.

It's certainly no secret that there WERE very real problems with Jamerson in LA. Not showing up, intonation problems, and an apparent inability to adapt to the way LA did business. SITSOM talks about these problems. I don't see this at all as Kaye tarnishing Jamerson's reputation at all.

The Osborn comment, if paraphrseed accurately and in context is disturbing. But I left CK's forum ten years ago due to some of the things she says that just fly in the face of reality... like no pros use D'Addario, setting intonation doesn't matter, etc.

John

 

[One Drop]

Again, Motown was a major influence on music. But so was the pop stuff that Kaye did. So much music sprang out of the work she was a part of. I'm not talking about bass players citing their influences. And again, Jamerson's fame is still fairly recent because of the documentary and a whole lot of recent publication about what he and some fellow musicians did. No one is taking away from that. Someone still needs to document the LA scene and what Kaye and Company did. It's just as worthy of the highest accolades. Kaye and Jamerson aren't pitted against each other. Just because she claims to have recorded a few songs he is credited with doesn't mean we have to hate Kaye and protect some sacred cow. It's just silly.

I absolutely agree that the many and various studio musicians who had a hand in creating so much great music deserve to have their contributions noted, especially bassists who tend to be passed over in histories as their role is less well understood by the public compared to guitarists, for example.

And yes, the music CK contributed to was massively influential.

But to compare her influence as a bass player on other musicians, and to the role of a bassist in popular music, to Jamerson's, is a complete nonsense. His popularity now is in no doubt partly due to the efforts of Slutsky, et al, but without the revolutionary style he pioneered, and the monumentous skill and musicianship he displayed with every note he played, over a span of a decade, the book and movie would have been nothing more than an interesting sidenote to musical history, and Jamerson's notoriety would not have increased much more than any other subject of a musical biopic.

The fact is that every once in a while music throws up a truly exceptional visionary who is able to transform the medium he works in, and by example paves the way for other musicians, whether they share his instrument or not.

IMO Jamerson is one of these, and he inspired the ones who in turn went on the become innovators and ground-breakers themselves, as well redefining the role of the bass in a way few others did, or could, as he did what he did at such an early stage of the instrument's history. Few knew his name, but they sure as heck were listening and studying those revolutionary sounds that were emanating from Studio A.

If you did a similar book about CK, would you really be able to find so many monsters of bass, from McCartney to Entwistle with everyone in between, who would gladly play his lines and elucidate their gratitude to her for their influence, or indeed for being the one who first inspired them to pick up the bass?

I'm all for giving credit where its due, and I don't believe music is a competition, nor should we need to compare musicians to appreciate their value, but a little historical perspective and recognition of the chronological significance of Jamerson's achievements compared to Carol Kaye's are necessary here.

None of this would be necessary if she wasn't so insistent on playing up her role and denigrating that of her fellow bassists, and some of her claims are simply unexcusable IMO, while others are more easily explained or forgiven.

Unfortunately she is her own worst enemy, and her vision of what the bass's role is in music is extremely limited and doesn't extend beyond her own style and experience. Studying her work is fun and educative, but her personality and dogmatism have not endeared her to many who she may have touched more deeply if she had behaved otherwise.

Anyway, that's my take on things and I have a feeling I'm far from alone.

 

[SoCal1]

FAR from alone and extremely well stated...

There IS a fine documentary on The Wrecking Crew and I highly recommend it. They should also do one on the MFSB Philly ensemble. Unlike The Wrecking Crew, however...The Funk Brothers were a much more tightly knit group of musicians who played with the SAME guys day after day, unlike The Wrecking Crew, who were a loose association of LOTS of different musicians...

As for JJ and CK...Jamerson WAS a disruptive force in popular music...Kaye was not.

As for this CK documentary...I'm sure that some will find it interesting, and that's fine...however, it does not appear that the fundraising for this project has matched the passions of the producers for this project at this time...

 

[SamJ]

and I third that opinion..... well stated One Drop!