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Here’s A Dumb Question For You (Enharmonics)

#61
stringtapper said:
Already exists in 12-tone serial theory. The form "0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T E" is probably the most popular as it agrees with musical set theory conventions ("0" always being the pitch against which the other pitches in the set are measured; e.g. [047] = C E G where C = 0).
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"Twelve-tone technique—also known as dodecaphony, twelve-tone serialism, and (in British usage) twelve-note composition—is a method of musical composition devised by Austrian composer Arnold Schoenberg (1874–1951) and associated with the "Second Viennese School" composers."

Very cool!, but...
The OP's question was about the NOTES.
" a system of twelve distinct notes."


That 12-tone serialism is still using the regular standard notation.
Am I missing something?

sh.PNG
 
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#64
gln1955 said:
I thought you were semi-serious and the colors would provide critical information. Like a system where the 12 notes of the scale would be written the same no matter what octave. Then the one actave might be the red notes, the next, the orange notes, etc. The lowest octave would of course be the brown notes.
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While it would actually help me because of my issues, I can't see colors specially as being particularly helpful to most people. Who knows though. Future societies may take color as being far more important and want to implement it.
 
#70
40Hz said:
In the IT world, the explanation for anything that seems incredibly inefficient or unnecessarily complex is: "Things are the way they are because they got to be that way."

Tradition (in this case Pythagorus's way of thinking about music and 2000+ years of theorizing, nomenclature, and teaching based on that) forms a gravity well that effectively prevents such changes.

It's much like spelling American English. Our language has 24 distinct consonant and 20 distinct vowel phenomes for a total of 44 unique sounds. Our alphabet only has 26 letters. And although our spelling is now "standardized," that standardization is arbitrary and based mostly on tradition and convention rather than on any sytematic approach to spelling. And while it would make more sense to just create a better alphabet (several already have been created) it's a hard sell when everyone is already used to the dumb system we currently use. In the Hungarian language each letter has only one sound and all words are spelled phonetically. If you hear a Hungarian word you know how to spell it. If you see a Hungarian word you know how to pronounce it. Sweet system. And one reason why you'll never see a spelling bee in Hungary - or have a child ask "What's this word?" when learning how to read. Small wonder their adult literacy rate is 99.4%. Better notation systems, such as alphabets, are a big help.

So yes, shoehorning a chromatic well tempered twelvetone scale into a diatonic just tempered eight note theoretical framework (because the number eight had a mystical significance) makes little sense. If each tone had its own note, sharps and flats and all the confusion they create would go away. Key signatures would become unnecessay. And…the list of benefits goes on. But it ain't gonna happen.

:laugh:
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Well, there's a different side to it: if your alphabet had 44 letters, it would be easier to learn how to pronounce the words. But, it would be more difficult to learn the letters and to read fast. If the system is built to encompass every possibility all the time, the system will be too complex for most people to use effectively. There's a reason computer programs hide away a lot of options. Our current system is simple enough to use effectively, and it has a lot of options that makes it work also in complex cases (not all complex cases, of course, like modern serious music).
 
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#72
Whousedtoplay said:
How would you notate the following excerpt from Mozart?

View attachment 3122773
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Use a 6-line staff if I were. But since I read standard notation already I wouldn't bother. No point redoing someone else's work if you don't have to. I'm already used to the old system and convoluted music terms. So I'll use either.

I'll see if I can post a trans-notation of part of it later on just for kicks.
 
#73
Max Blasto said:
What 20 vowel phonemes are we talking about here in American English?

I speak Greater American and I'm working with 13. Where are the missing 7.

And Hungarian is written _phonemically_, not phonetically.

English is written morphophonemically.
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How about 44 phonemes and 4 blends in English.



English is a fairly complicated and messed up language for many reasons. I taught ESL to russian speakers. In Kazakhstan, English is now the third official language (The language of economy). Russian is almost completely phonetic and very orderly too. Unfortunately, when it came to grammar, they wanted to emulate the beauty and precision of German, but could not stay sober when formulating the rules.
 
#74
No need to learn music theory. It will all be composed and performed by AI within two decades.

Your musical instruments will become like typewriters. Your theory will be like slide rules and tables of trigonometric functions.

"This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
 
#77
Max Blasto said:
What 20 vowel phonemes are we talking about here in American English?

I speak Greater American and I'm working with 13. Where are the missing 7.
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I'm going off this article.

And Hungarian is written _phonemically_...
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You'll need to explain that to me since I looked at the definitions and I'm still not following your point. Regardless of how it's written there's still just one sound assigned each letter AFAIBT. (My SO speaks Hungarian.) Unless you're referring to that weird "vowel harmony" tjing Hungarian does.

I'm always interested in learning something. :)
 
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#78
Fredrik E. Nilsen said:
Well, there's a different side to it: if your alphabet had 44 letters, it would be easier to learn how to pronounce the words. But, it would be more difficult to learn the letters and to read fast. If the system is built to encompass every possibility all the time, the system will be too complex for most people to use effectively. There's a reason computer programs hide away a lot of options. Our current system is simple enough to use effectively, and it has a lot of options that makes it work also in complex cases (not all complex cases, of course, like modern serious music).
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Complexity doesn't necessarily slow down readers in Japan. Which is possibly the only language harder to learn to read than it is to speak due to the unusually complex way it's written. Same goes for traditional Chinese.
 

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