Here's what I want. Should I compress?

[f.c.geil]

Exactly.

 

[onosson]

Hmmm.... INTEResting thread!

FWIW (uh oh - acronym!) I like reading Bongo's reviews. I appreciate reviews by people like him, as he is very thorough in describing WHY he comes to his opinions. So I may read a review and realize that I have a different need out of a product, and know why I might disagree with the reviewer's evaluation - which makes it a very positive review for me, even if I disagree with it! I think that's why people appreciate Bongo's site and wait for his reviews - not because he's always right. Everyone wants something different anyways, so how could that be??

I've been enjoying following the MXR Bass Comp thread, though I'm quite happy with my BBE OptoStomp lately, as I prefer VERY mild/light compression with a slow attack. Of course, if I didn't say WHY I'm happy with my current unit, then my opinion of it would be much less valuable to anyone reading this comment.

Carry on...

 

[chessrocks]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that every board has it's "dittos."

"Quoted for truth."

"Yea, what he said."

"You are sooo right."

"I agree with that guy."

But interestingly enough ... the vast majority of the members of any BBS are lurkers. So essentially, all of us here going back and forth between one another ... our main purpose is to provide entertainment for others. We're kind of like the court jesters, only we don't get paid.

What I haven't noticed so much on this forum ... are the creative "this thread sucks" images. You know ... the ones with Richard Simmons and/or Gary Coleman. Don't you guys have any "image googlers" around here? And you call yourself a BBS? You guys are slacking on me.

Anyway, just so I'm not being hypocritical, I'll start things off ....

 

[BioDriver]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that every board has it's "dittos."

"Quoted for truth."

"Yea, what he said."

"You are sooo right."

"I agree with that guy."

But interestingly enough ... the vast majority of the members of any BBS are lurkers. So essentially, all of us here going back and forth between one another ... our main purpose is to provide entertainment for others. We're kind of like the court jesters, only we don't get paid.

What I haven't noticed so much on this forum ... are the creative "this thread sucks" images. You know ... the ones with Richard Simmons and/or Gary Coleman. Don't you guys have any "image googlers" around here? And you call yourself a BBS? You guys are slacking on me.

Anyway, just so I'm not being hypocritical, I'll start things off ....

Invalid Link Removed

 

[chessrocks]

Invalid Link Removed

Cute kittens don't qualify.

It has to be Gary Coleman, Richard Simmons or the dinosaur scratching his chin in order to be legit.

 

[boomertech]

If that's the case, then I apologize. If you care to ask nicely, either via this thread or private message, I would be more than happy to teach you how to evaluate compression for yourself; the different types; what to listen for and how to use it for creative dynamics shaping in just about any context. Just let me know, and I will be more than happy to lend a hand in any way I can.

Thanks for the offer to be my compressor professor, I really appreciate it… but I don’t really have the time to be a student right now.

It wasn't lost on me that Bongo gives positive reviews to Boomer's pedals ... when he came rushing to Bongo's defense. Whoever said Chivalry was dead?

That's just good business to be good to your reviewers, and Boomer is practicing some good PR.

Awesome!!!! Hey Bongo, I hope you see this thread!
Thank you for this opportunity to give him a big shout out.

Hey, Boomer, if you want to hook me up with an eval unit, I would be more than happy to give it a thorough, fair and unbiased review. I'm genuinely interested.

Thanks for the offer for the review, you’re really too kind. But I think I will have to respectfully pass again. The problem is that if you gave me a good review I would feel compelled to have your back anytime someone said anything negative about you…. I just don’t have the time for a second job.

And if you understand how compression times work, and the difference between an attack time that swings in the microseconds (limiter territory) versus one that measures in the milliseconds ... you can look at the owner's manual, and make that call for yourself.

I just want people to understand that compression isn't such a huge thing for you to wrap your head around if you take the time to learn the basics and train your ear. You of all people should appreciate this sentiment.

I do agree with you to a point and I don’t doubt at all your abilities dial in killer tone. Some people are gear heads and they know exactly what to look for in the spec sheets. It’s been awhile since I have been compressor shopping, but I do recall that there were many pedals that didn’t have the specs readily available. This is where a review is very helpful, even if the reviewer doesn’t have the specs they can give you an idea of how the comp responds. A lot of people gain knowledge without trying, via osmosis, by just reading what others have to say.

Where I disagree with you is that I don’t think everyone needs to be on top of all the technical aspects of their gear, or even be tech savvy at all. All but one of the guys that I have jammed with throughout the years could care less about specs. If these guys saw an attack swing that goes from 20uS to 800uS they would say “WOW! That’s a huge range”, when the reality is that the entire range is really fast. If I told them that it gets that speed from a VCA chip, they would have looked at me like I had just relieved myself on a toddler… although, I may have gotten a nod of approval or a high-five if I said it had a tube in it. So there is a huge majority that only cares about how an effect sounds… nothing more. For these people an unbiased description of the comps operation and performance is all they need or want.

Look, it's cool that you're chiming in here, but it's very clear to me that you're just docking me for style points and the tone of my delivery .... rather than on the substance of the matter.

Ummm…Nope. I am pretty sure it’s mostly your substance that I have been trying my best to address…but, your style and tone of delivery really makes it nearly impossible to converse with you rationally. You’re a musician and I know that you understand that tone and delivery of a singer can change a song for the good or bad and can have a large impact of the meaning projected… that also applies to normal personal interaction. I suspect that you could offer a wealth of information and knowledge to the forum, but honestly your delivery has been way off key and you are fully aware of it. You may think this is all very funny, but when you are a fresh member and you come in wiping your butt on the curtains you have to know that a lot people are going to be offended. Everyone has natural reactions towards attitude and you seem to enjoy those reactions. Maybe it’s me, but I just don’t get how you see it as fun. I am truly saying this to be helpful… maybe if you worked on your style points and delivery tone the substance of your posts would have a lot more merit to them.

Now before I head out again…. Let me get one last shout out for Bongo!!!

I also want to apologize to the OP for the direction this thread has taken.

-Frank

 

[chessrocks]

You may think this is all very funny, but when you are a fresh member and you come in wiping your butt on the curtains you have to know that a lot people are going to be offended.

And you've been a member for how long, now? Some guy like me comes along, makes a few comments ... and instead of merely glancing over them, you've chosen to hijack this thread and derail it in to some sort of online, multi-quoting "scolding" session, rather than keeping it focused on the OP's question.

Hey, if you think I'm just being a troll, then don't feed me. Obviously, you must feel there is some merit to what I'm saying, or you wouldn't even be indulging. I will say something right now that I believe is an undeniable fact: If Bongo had given your pedals bad reviews, and if he had said that "FEA pedals make great doorstops," I am most certain that you would be doing everything you could to discredit his opinions.

And if you ever do, in fact, get around to sending me that eval, and I glow over it, I'm pretty sure you would change your tune about me, also. And you made a nice joke about it, but IF you truly had confidence in your pedals, then I don't see any reason why you would be worried about a guy like me giving it a completely honest, no-holds-barred review.

 

[scottfeldstein]

I also want to apologize to the OP for the direction this thread has taken.

No need to apologize. I'm just amazed at the relative civility being shown to chessrocks here. Coming in and acting this way? It's a testament to the courtesy of everyone else in this thread that the F-bombs weren't flying many comments ago.

it’s mostly your substance that I have been trying my best to address…but, your style and tone of delivery really makes it nearly impossible to converse with you rationally. ... I suspect that you could offer a wealth of information and knowledge to the forum, but honestly your delivery has been way off key

Word.

And with that, gents, I'm out.

 

[boomertech]

I will say something right now that I believe is an undeniable fact: If Bongo had given your pedals bad reviews, and if he had said that "FEA pedals make great doorstops," I am most certain that you would be doing everything you could to discredit his opinions.

That’s a very bold statement. How can you assert something as factual of me when you don’t know me and there is absolutely no evidence or reasoning to back it up? I know myself better than anyone and if Bongo gave me a bad review or taken points away… I would (and have in the past) looked to see if there is merit in what he said. If what he said (or anyone else for that matter) was true, I would and have made every effort to improve it. If I failed to address valid issues with my designs and received bad reviews, that would be my problem and how could I fault someone else for it? That’s not my nature. I can absolutely guaranty that I wouldn’t be discrediting his reviews or anyone else’s respectful reviews. And the key word here is respectful. How can I make that guaranty? I know me and that IS a fact…period.

BTW, my pedals do make awesome doorstops and paper weights. And when I add the beer bottle opener option they will make the perfect gift for all of your family and friends.

Anyway, this is my last post in this thread. Please visit the gift shop on your way out.

Peace to all (including you chessrocks).
-Frank

 

[Epidrake]

I am incredibly grateful to Bongo for his detailed reviews. He helped me narrow down my choices and explain compression in a way I could understand. People like him are to be admired for their dedication.
I'm just starting on the bass, I have been playing guitar for 30 years, and Bongo's reviews are invaluable to me.
Thanks Bongo

 

[chessrocks]

That’s a very bold statement. How can you assert something as factual of me when you don’t know me and there is absolutely no evidence or reasoning to back it up?

Because it's only human nature, and I'm assuming you are human.

If you are what you say you are, then there is no way you would have spent that much thread real estate just lecturing some random troll on forum etiquette. I assume you have more important matters to attend to that don't include acting as the unofficial "miss manners" of the TB forum.

For the record, I think you're just practicing sound business, and I would probably do the same in your shoes. By all accounts, you seem to have a very good product by the way, and I hope to either play with or purchase one at some point down the road.

 

[king_biscuit]

Because it's only human nature.

There is no such thing. Modern humans (Homo sapiens) have never lived in a proper state of nature in the Hobbesian sense; Therefore, the term is meaningless. I wonder though if you could let us in on your credentials that make you so wise in the ways of philosophy and sociology?

 

[mcnach]

Primary importance: When I'm at high volume levels it would be nice to know that there's a Limiter that, when set correctly, will help prevent speaker over-excursion when I bang a low E or other really loud note. My amp (GK MB500) has a limiter on it, but I think it's just there to prevent the amp itself from clipping, not my speakers from being overtaxed.

Secondary importance: The issue of pushing the speakers too hard aside, I'd like to have all the notes I play be roughly a similar volume. Of course, I'd like to preserve some dynamics, but I find some notes virtually disappear while others knock everyone over. It would be nice to even it out. Also, I switch from finger style to slap a lot and I'd like to even out the volume differences there, too.

I don't want a compressor/limiter to do anything else to my sound. I don't need it to EQ. I don't want it to add "dirt." I don't want it to do anything except adjust volumes as I play.

I don't want to turn it on and off. If it's doing what I want (above), I just want it on all the time. I don't want to adjust its settings mid-song or even mid-set. I just want it to dial it in and leave it.

I'm not opposed to a pedal, even though I wouldn't be stomping it a lot. If it does what I want and it's cheap, I'd do that.

I'd probably be happier with a rack unit, but then I'd have to drop $100 on a rack, get rack ears for the MB500 and then sit around regretting that I already bought a bag for the amp

Finally, I really like this link that someone posted in another thread. Compressor Reviews But even it is a little overwhelming. What I'm looking for is "yes, it sounds like you want a compressor. They'll generally do the things you say you want." And "From what you're saying, I think you'd be really happy with the compressor I use which is _______."

Thoughts?

I had similar issues when I first started to play gigs, and it got much better as I got more experience... BUt yeah, if you have been at this for 30 years, I guess experience is not the issue here, and if technique alone is the problem it's unlikely to magically improve overnight

I use a TC Electronic RH450 amplifier, which has a built-in multiband compressor. I like it a lot. I have it always on. It feels like it's not doing anything, it's very transparent, it does its job gently but well.
I would feel tempted to check out TC Electronic stand-alone compressors.

 

[Dr McBalders]

Right now, I am wearing a "WWBD" bracelet.
And, I love my optostomp.
So there.
B.

 

[f.c.geil]

If you are what you say you are, then there is no way you would have spent that much thread real estate just lecturing some random troll on forum etiquette. I assume you have more important matters to attend to that don't include acting as the unofficial "miss manners" of the TB forum.

Really??? You must no get around much, then. Paul C. Buff is the owner, inventor, and chief engineer of four lines of photographic studio lights, and a reasonably well known sound engineer, and yet he (amazingly busy as he is) frequents photography forums, and will be even more vocal than Boomertech has been about forum etiquette, and the treatment of other people whom he respects. I know of several other people like this, too, but Paul is the one I know best. The point is that yes, company owners spend time on forums, and are more than willing to take up their time to do what they believe is the right thing by defending those who have been wronged.

 

[aledeville]

I read Bongos reviews too, first of all, because I believe a guy that had so many pedals going through his fingers, might be way more precise in specifying what the pedal does and how it reacts.
Second point for my internet based opinion making is that I simply have neither time nor desire to test 20 pedals until I buy one.
I somehow perfectly agree with chessrocks, I should go more into how compressors work etc. but I rather spend my time doing something else. It's as simple as that.

@chessrocks
Based on what you say you seem to have a lot of experience. Why don't you share some of it? I think that would be a win situation and not accusing others of chivalric behaviour or whatever.

 

[bongomania]

Since "chessrocks" continues to troll in other threads, I thought it would be worth mentioning here that there are several pedal makers/brands where I gave their products less than stellar reviews, yet they continue to be very positive with me --even to the point of being friends-- because they know I was completely honest and very careful in my appraisal. A smart person is not offended by accurate statements. One of them even wrote me to say they took my criticisms as a spur to try even harder to create something great! So you cannot assume that Boomer only came to my defense because I gave him positive reviews.

In another thread chessrocks derides my "halfassed" review of FMR comps, because he likes them. I'd point out the chronological order that the different models were released--you can see that the RNC gets a not-so-thorough review, the RNLA gets more, and the PBC-6A gets a nice full-length treatment. I had only begun review-writing back when the RNC came out--many of my oldest reviews are short and lacking in detail. I later bought a second RNC, and got the exact same results, so I didn't feel motivated to rewrite the review, short as it is. The RNLA sucked for all the reasons I detailed in the review. Pointing out detailed criticisms is not "halfassed", and I also explain quite clearly in that review why I didn't have more to say about it. Then there's the PBC-6A... enjoy trying to pretend that review is "halfassed".

Anyway, I don't know why I'm bothering to defend myself against this obvious troll. Maybe he's not Olson, though I agree his writing style is nearly identical. Maybe he's Larry Neal Jenkins, who has a long history of coming to various forums, with dozens of new account names, just to bait me.

I think the main thing that bothers me is I truly go to great lengths to try to see all sides of a story, and examine gear as objectively as possible, and this should be apparent even to people who disagree with me. I have absolutely no problem with people disagreeing with me. Just be mature about it, not a sniping, ankle-biting little troll like chessrocks.

 

[chessrocks]

In another thread chessrocks derides my "halfassed" review of FMR comps, because he likes them.

Hey Bongo, I don't know if there is any relation between this statement and your earlier one about a manufacturer writing you to "thank you" for your bad review and that they will try harder.

But if that was indeed Mark McQuilken, then I assure you ... that's just Mark and Beth being the quality people they are. And they were probably just practicing sound business.

But that particular review (among a few others) ... has actually done a little bit of harm to the audio community. And I'm not just saying this because I happen to like the RNC or whatever ... it's one of many staples of quality tools out there. But when I read your reviews of their product .... I just gotta say, I haven't been able to reproduce any of the troubles you've claimed to have with it. And I think because your, um, blog has such good search engine karma, that it's actually spread sort of this "myth" in the industry that it's somehow good on everything else on the planet except bass.

But that's just one isolated example, and it's really not that big of a deal. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and in the same vein, I'm entitled to take issue with and disagree with some of them.

And I think this is where we're getting to the heart of something I think you could personally work on: You feel that you are entitled to give thoughtful opinions on gear, good and bad. Yet, if someone takes issue with your opinions ... he/she is branded a "troll." I would have hoped that you would take the lead of this manufacturer you speak of, and thank me for my opinion. And I think that just has more to do with something I touched on in another thread: Namely that you don't take too well to criticism yourself .... and those who find value in your opinions, obviously don't like it either. And that's completely understandable. You find that a lot with online communities who develop their own "opinion leaders," if you will.

 

[bongomania]

You still don't get it. I have not branded you a troll because you disagree with me. There are loads of people in this forum who disagree with me all the time, and we stay civil at minimum, or even stay/become friends regardless of the disagreement.

You are a troll because you use illogical, petty criticisms to try to cut me down--and that is a far cry from civil disagreement. In fact, I have several times gone and re-bought a compressor for a second evaluation, after hearing from readers that their experiences were different from mine. Pay attention: when somebody is mature and reasonable in their communication with me, I take them seriously, and I even spend --no exaggeration-- thousands of dollars trying to sort out the truth in between my experience and theirs. I have also corrected several of my reviews when it turned out the first unit I reviewed was defective. The RNLA is a glaring exception I'll admit, but frankly this #### gets expensive!

No, that line I said about a positive response from a negative review had nothing to do with McQuilken, and I don't know how you came to that notion.

I'll say it again, because you still haven't bothered to hear it the first several times: disagree with me all you want--people do, all the time, and it's cool with me--but only when they seem like they are not just out to make petty little snipes and illogical attacks, which seems to be your whole agenda here.

 

[chessrocks]

I'll say it again, because you still haven't bothered to hear it the first several times: disagree with me all you want--people do, all the time, and it's cool with me--but only when they seem like they are not just out to make petty little snipes and illogical attacks, which seems to be your whole agenda here.

And I will say this again: that is your perception. Not the reality.

Even if I was purposely trying to instigate (which I assure you, I am not), I would hope that you could rise above that kind of petty nonsense, rather than making yourself a full and willing participant in it.

Criticism is always a lot easier to dish out than it is to take. I understand that, but I think it's something you're having difficulty with. For what it's worth, if I have hurt your feelings in any way, then I am sorry. I respect your opinions and actually agree with the majority of them -- as I have mentioned several times in multiple threads. But that does not mean that I am going to cower in your wake. You sir, I'm assuming are a grown man, and I would hope you learn to start acting like it. This is simply not a battle worth having.